Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Xant]

No, only Russians learn history that way.

[Kafein]

In Soviet Crimea referendum votes you

[BlindGuy]

This is all very true. Basically, Ukrainians are fucked, no matter what. They have the worst geostrategical position in the world.

But it was, apparently Americans that tipped the scale first, by attempting to replace elected, although totally corrupted Gov, with their pawns. And no, they did not annex anything (mostly because they can't and they have no interest), but just imagine what their reaction would have been if Russia instigated revolution and installed puppet Government in Mexico, for example. When it happened in Cuba, we almost had WW3, and USA did attempt the invasion (although they got their asses kicked).

I dont disagree with any sentiments here but: USA did not try to invade Cuba: the CIA tried to invade cuba.

[Kuujis]

brainwashed eu scumm

he give u links
and U back only shittalks 

Also - my friend in the military told a story that reached him via his channels.....
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Links... lets see - to a russian propaganda site and an (relatively) old article (content of which I did not deny btw )  Yeah, I shit talk, join the club 

The point is - if you are weak and want to push through your agenda - you look for allies. One can ally with russias putler (one HELLUVA ally that guy is, backstabing his neighbours) or you can ally with USA, knowing full well their intentions, because they leak though and through... Yanukovic chose putler, Maidan had to choose west... Its just that the reaction to failure in this particular case was seriously fucked up from putler

And its not about a source of that story, its about the content of it... 

[Corwin]

I dont disagree with any sentiments here but: USA did not try to invade Cuba: the CIA tried to invade cuba.

Ok, so Russia did not try to invade Crimea, FSB invaded Crimea.

Links... lets see - to a russian propaganda site and an (relatively) old article (content of which I did not deny btw )  Yeah, I shit talk, join the club 

Dude, I don't care its Russian propaganda site, the speech is there. And the speech is correct, word by word. And Vovka is trolling you, and you don't even realise that. Conclusion: You = stupid.

[Xant]

Ok, so Russia did not try to invade Crimea, FSB invaded Crimea.

Apples to oranges.

Those are not FSB men on the streets in Crimea. They are Russian soldiers.

If it had been USA invading Cuba, as opposed to a single American organization, Cuba would not have stood a chance. American soldiers did not invade Cuba.

If FSB had put together an all-Ukrainian militia that now controlled Crimea, with no support from Russia, then it would be a good comparison. But alas, that is not the reality.

[Butan]

I'm glad to be joined by some brainwashed pro-russian scum on this topic 


Whether Maidan was started/supported/controlled by outer forces, fact is that the people chose to overthrow the government, whether pushed badly or not.
The same is true for Crimean people, even if the results of the referendum were positively rigged, dont tell me that the people cheering in the streets of Crimea are mind-controlled and only represent the minority, and that people at Maidan were free men that represented the majority.
Maybe after everyone have conceded those 2 points (both coup/protest/revolt/whatever of Maidan and Simferopol are as illegitimate/legitimate/whatever as the other) we can start talking of more debatable topics.

[Paul]

The problem is that with this move the good old land grab becomes a viable option again on the world stage. It's a can of worms. On the other hand it's certainly time to protect those German citizens on Mallorca with Anschluss.

[Leshma]

When it exactly stopped to be an option?

[Piok]

The problem is that with this move the good old land grab becomes a viable option again on the world stage. It's a can of worms. On the other hand it's certainly time to protect those German citizens on Mallorca with Anschluss.

Germans on Mallorca are not oppressed but Turks in Germany can see things otherwise

[Mala]

Germans on Mallorca are not oppressed but Turks in Germany can see things otherwise

they are, those mouldy brits always remove the towels.
and we oppressed turks here, they have to work to earn their money .

[Franke]

they are, those mouldy brits always remove the towels.

I wouldn't call it oppression, it's more like a proxy war between GB and Germany

[Kafein]

When it exactly stopped to be an option?

When the international community started taking substance, I guess.

Whether Maidan was started/supported/controlled by outer forces, fact is that the people chose to overthrow the government, whether pushed badly or not.
The same is true for Crimean people, even if the results of the referendum were positively rigged, dont tell me that the people cheering in the streets of Crimea are mind-controlled and only represent the minority, and that people at Maidan were free men that represented the majority.
Maybe after everyone have conceded those 2 points (both coup/protest/revolt/whatever of Maidan and Simferopol are as illegitimate/legitimate/whatever as the other) we can start talking of more debatable topics.

The thing is, they are incomparable in nature. EuroMaidan ousted Yanukovich illegally, however this happened quite peacefully relative to this kind of event and what it usually causes. It was definitely not a coup and not a revolution either, as the parliament did not change.

Now, I believe the unilateral referendum in Crimea is legitimate if you completely forget about russian soldiers invading it beforehand for a completely warped up reason ("WMD in Irak"-style, should I add) and infecting the population of another country with russian propaganda.

So no, conceding that those two things are "as legitimate/illegitimate as each other" is not the start of a healthy debate. As I said before, just because one recognises two sides to an argument doesn't mean they are equal or that the truth is in between.

[Yarl]

(click to show/hide)

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 :D

[Molly]

I'm glad to be joined by some brainwashed pro-russian scum on this topic 

Butan became some kind of martyr now and we are all "USA... USA..."-chanting western noobs for not being able/willing to "look through the veil of multinational US dictated power surge".