Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Nessaj]

What's happening in Ukraine is a disgrace, both parties should end the violence and bloodshed before it escalates even further.

• Corruption is a widespread and highly growing problem in Ukraine.
• Ukraine is among the three most corrupted nations of the world together with Colombia and Brazil according to Ernst & Young.
• Under the two former presidents, Kuchma and Yushchenko, Ukraine was described as a kleptocracy, e.g. "Rule by thieves". Not a democracy. Now recall the elections for Yanukovych.
• On 15 December 1967, at the age of 17, Yanukovych was sentenced to three years incarceration for participating in a robbery and assault.
• On 8 June 1970, he was convicted for a second time on charges of assault and was sentenced to two years of imprisonment.
• On 11 July 2005, the office of the Donetsk Oblast Prosecutor charged Yanukovych with fraud, though he was never convicted due to the case files were destroyed.
• The GDP of Ukraine is worse than literally every other country around it, and all of Europe, except for one (Moldova).
  (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  
• At least 35% of the population lives below the poverty line.
• This is one of the presidents luxurious homes (made by Finnish company Honka), each chandelier alone costs 100k USD:
  (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   
  • The price of this estate is estimated to be in the range of 75 to 100 million dollars. However for most of Yanukovych's career he's been a public servant or parliament deputy, his salary never exceeding 2000 USD/month.
  • In comparison here's the home of Angela Merkel's (the Chancellor of Germany) -- a simple apartment in Berlin:
    (click to show/hide)

    visitors can't see pics , please register or login
    
• The protesters are not solely right wing nationalists, everyone is on the street, young, elderly, retired seniors, the common working man, even blue collar people, literally everyone.
  (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  CLICK ON THE IMAGES TO SEE MORE.
• These are legitimate democratic protests which are being piggybacked by ultra-nationalist & ultra-far-right parties/groups which have been instigating the worst of the violence. We saw and see the same in Libya and now Syria where there's even infighting among the rebels between radical extremists and moderates.
• Thursday several people have been killed  in the free hospital camps, among others a young female nurse who had been shot through the head (cited from Danish correspondence journalist). The government is also blocking hospitals and equipment for treatment. Here's a picture of another female volunteer nurse who was shot in the throat by police, where-after she wrote a quick message on social media "I'm dying":
  (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  
• People who get their news from RT (formerly Russia Today) should remember that this station is funded by the federal budget of Russia through their Federal Agency on Press and Mass Communications. It also has very close ties to Putin's own parties (among others especially his ultra violent nationalistic youth party Nashi).
• The police have in several regions refused their government orders and have instead sided with the people; Translated: "I'm Berkut commander Shalenyk Vasyl and on behalf of all my subordinates I'm stating that the Berkut of Zakarpattya region is taking the people's side."
  (click to show/hide)
• The government is reluctant to utilize the military because it is unknown who they would side with, especially the loyalty of the western Ukrainian military is in question here. Yanukovych sacked the head of the military two days ago because he refused to use his men against the people (reason cited from VICE not BBC).
• The western region of Lviv (2.5 million people) declared its independence from Yanukovych's rule -- siding with the protesters. Their military might come into play.
• The police is using snipers with armor piercing bullets against unarmed protesters, shooting directly into crowds of people:
  (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  
• (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
   visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  
  Those artillery cannons aren't museum pieces though but T-12s which the Ukrainian military has about 400 of.
• (click to show/hide)

  visitors can't see pics , please register or login
  
• Sanctions are now both in place and being put in place: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/141110.pdf -- which will hinder both the police and Yanukovych's government.
• There's talks about utilizing the International Criminal Court in the aftermath to trial and convict those who have committed atrocities for crimes against humanity, this accounts especially for those giving orders (Government officials) and those following illegal orders (mostly police). Cited from mainstream TV news media.

[Segd]

What's the big difference between the Ukranian and Russian languages? Could a person that only was taught Ukrainian understand Russian?

It's a little bit harder for Russians, a lot easier for Ukrainians, but we could understand 80-95% of others language. I could name less than 20 Ukrainian words, but I could freely communicate on great variety of topics with my ukro-friends

Nessaj describes current situation correctly, especially about Russia Today crap. Currently there is only 1 free tv channel in Russia, but it's gonna be closed soon.
Maydan reporter from "Russia 24" gets Oscar statue for his "honest" work:
http://youtu.be/2bOLWlDy32o?t=37s

Btw, don't forget that poverty line uses national standards. Average salary in Ukraine is about 370$(265 Euro). 1.65 times less than in Russia.

[DaveUKR]

What's the big difference between the Ukranian and Russian languages? Could a person that only was taught Ukrainian understand Russian?

Original native Ukrainian is hard to understand for Russians. Not only because words and pronunciation are different but also intonation is quite different. Even I had some problems understanding some particular words of western Ukrainians (while I know Ukrainian perfectly). So what Segd said about 80-95% is not true, it can only happen when you speak to someone whose native language is Russian but also knows Ukrainian. I doubt any Russian can understand more than 60% of native Ukrainian speech. It's not more than I understand Polish or Croatian or any other slavic language. Though 80-95% sounds more realistic if you read the text - it's much easier for Russians to read it than to hear. Mostly because a lot of letters are pronounced different and some letters are absent at all (Ґ, Є, І, Ї can only be met in Ukrainian while Ё, Ъ, Ы, Э can only be met in Russian)

Russian г е ё и ъ ы э гх (like german H) йи

Ukrainian ґ є ьо/йо і ' и е г ї

[Segd]

Original native Ukrainian is hard to understand for Russians. Not only because words and pronunciation are different but also intonation is quite different. Even I had some problems understanding some particular words of western Ukrainians (while I know Ukrainian perfectly). So what Segd said about 80-95% is not true, it can only happen when you speak to someone whose native language is Russian but also knows Ukrainian. I doubt any Russian can understand more than 60% of native Ukrainian speech.

I think I know better that I can & can't understand But I would agree that western dialect is harder for Russians than central or eastern(which is more like a hybrid between Russian & Ukrainian)

[[ptx]]

http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1005652.html

An interesting article.

Also, apparently Yanukovich has conceded to the opposition?

[Xant]

Here's a picture of another female volunteer nurse who was shot in the throat by police, where-after she wrote a quick message on social media "I'm dying":

She has been trained well.

[Segd]

http://www.president.gov.ua/news/30116.html

Заявляю про те, що я ініціюю дострокові президентські вибори.
Я ініціюю також повернення до Конституції 2004го року з перерозподілом повноважень убік парламентської республіки.
to Dave: I could understand 95(except few words)% of your President's speech

Today Yanukovich announced new president elections(no exact date yet) & returning of Constitution 2004(parliament republic). Lets hope that this will end all crap for good.

[Xant]

New elections don't mean much in a country that's massively corrupted.

[Segd]

At least they have an opposition, & Yanukovich now has less support than ever.

[Xant]

Well, we'll see. It will depend who's monitoring the elections, as well. If it's the corrupt government, can't really trust the results. I imagine the rioters would want some outside observers.

[Tuetensuppe]

all i can say is, that im watching the internet and also official german television from time to time...

im really angry and feel so sry about all the shit thats going on....

friend of mine sended me that today

http://ukrstream.tv/videos/siloviki_obstriliuiut_aktivistiv_maidanu_armed_forces_shoot_protestors#.Uwdc54VoHcv

http://ukrstream.tv/videos/v_oblozi_under_siege#.UwdfFYVoHcs

all i see are videos like that, no clue what is written or said, cause i dont speak the language....but the pics and videos say enough in my opinion

[Segd]

Parliament today:
http://youtu.be/1TYNfYHqndo?t=2m44s

[Tuetensuppe]

Parliament today:
http://youtu.be/1TYNfYHqndo?t=2m44s

may you can explain what was said?

[Segd]

They were discussing old new Constitution(2004), & Speaker decided to make a break till 16:00. Looks like Ukrainians  tired of breaks

btw, voting in Soviet Russia:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Armpit_Sweat]

Parliament today:
http://youtu.be/1TYNfYHqndo?t=2m44s

Doesn't look like it was a very productive meeting, but they should really keep negotiating - people a getting killed while they waste time on fighting each other, and holding lunch breaks! 
 
It's finally moving somewhere, so imo they should sacrifice some of their time, and just keep that parlament meeting going - sleep in chairs if they need to, but not postponing anything. The faster they come to some sort of acceptable agreement - the fewer citizens and policemen will get hurt.
 
Looks like a fucking zombie apocalypse in Kiev If I was skeptical in the beginning, now, after people were getting shot with live rounds, i have no sympathy for the government at all. Was and still am against demonstrations and such as a concept, but this is just too much...