Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 629307 times)

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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #360 on: February 20, 2014, 09:27:37 pm »
+5
Dave, I suppose your're central ukrainian ?

No, I come from from the South-West of Ukraine which is mostly considered as eastern Ukraine (makes no sense, I know).

Thank you Dave, wanted to make post about differences between eastern and western urkainians for long time, but didn't have enough time and was afraid to misrepresent it due to emotions.
Indeed these differences are one of the main problem Ukraine has because no matter who will come to power, nearly half population will hate him.
Also, you forgot to mention the fourth opposition leader - Poroshenko, obviously smart guy who become more popular with every day. I'm just interested to hear your opinion about him.

Yeah, he is obviously a smart guy and he has my sympathy, but I doubt that they will let him get the power. (Info for everyone: it's a known Ukrainian rich businessman who owns one of the biggest candy production brands in the world - Roshen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roshen )

That was also the case in our former army, probably in many armies, even in Ukranian. I was never an officer, thank God, otherwise I also may think police has a right to shoot at protesters. Dave, kudos for the post, except for the last four sentences. If you shoot at your people as a police officer or officer of the army (which is even worse imo), except when defending your own or somebody else life, you deserve to be tried and convicted as a criminal.

It's the same for all European armies I think. Yanukovich can't use army unless he announces a civil war. What I wanted to say about shooting at protesters is that they only had to shoot and use forces once they had direct threat to their lives (in cases when protesters used guns themselves and threw Molotov Cocktails), Berkut instead used guns and forces against those who didn't even have melee weapons. Trust me, shooting in real life only makes you value a human life more. I've read some Russian websites and the majority of people were like "Kill this Maydan protesters, just use guns and kill them all, they're nаzi terrorists", those are just Russian stupid kids who played Battlefield and never knew the real situation in Ukraine. Last four sentences are the cruel reality, I want it or I don't - I'll be mobilized in case of civil war, anyway being an officer means that you mostly give orders over shooting yourself. And of course I won't shoot my own people besides those who try to kill me, even if I get an order to do so - I can always refuse to follow the criminal order.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #361 on: February 20, 2014, 09:31:01 pm »
0
Having a law that says a soldier should refuse a command given that is against the law is one thing and reality is another. If the big shots of the military are on the government's side, it's not so easy to just say you won't obey an order. You might think the law is technically on your side and hopefully that'll give you the warm fuzzies when you're executed as a traitor.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
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Offline Corwin

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #362 on: February 20, 2014, 09:36:29 pm »
+5
I want it or I don't - I'll be mobilized in case of civil war, anyway being an officer means that you mostly give orders over shooting yourself. And of course I won't shoot my own people besides those who try to kill me, even if I get an order to do so - I can always refuse to follow the criminal order.

This makes me sad. And the saddest part is - I heard it all before. From the lips of officers and soldiers here in the Balkans, even my father. And you know what he says now, after twenty years? I should have had the guts and throw away my rifle when I was mobilized and return home.

What I am trying to say is, it's not like you wouldn't have any choice. You can refuse to accept mobilization. Unfortunately, my country has been through something very similar, and trust me, the only people that went through it clean were those who refused to take arms even when they had every excuse to do so.
I mean, what have you got to lose? You know, you come from nothing, you're going back to nothing, what have you lost? Nothing!

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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #363 on: February 20, 2014, 09:41:30 pm »
+1
Having a law that says a soldier should refuse a command given that is against the law is one thing and reality is another. If the big shots of the military are on the government's side, it's not so easy to just say you won't obey an order. You might think the law is technically on your side and hopefully that'll give you the warm fuzzies when you're executed as a traitor.

There is a difference between a soldier and an officer. It's already hard to punish or control even a sergeant who has a squad of 10 soldiers devoted to their direct commander, they follow only his direct orders. Nothing to say about officers, you simply have to destroy the whole subordinated platoon/company in order to execute the commanding officer. Also if I'll have such an order - trust me, I won't be the only officer who will refuse to obey.

This makes me sad. And the saddest part is - I heard it all before. From the lips of officers and soldiers here in the Balkans, even my father. And you know what he says now, after twenty years? I should have had the guts and throw away my rifle when I was mobilized and return home.

What I am trying to say is, it's not like you wouldn't have any choice. You can refuse to accept mobilization. Unfortunately, my country has been through something very similar, and trust me, the only people that went through it clean were those who refused to take arms even when they had every excuse to do so.

In order to refuse mobilization - I have to violate the law so I can get to the prison which is even worse because I know that I'll be replaced by someone whom I can't be sure of. Because I can't be sure in anyone besides myself.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 09:44:47 pm by DaveUKR »

Offline Boerenlater

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #364 on: February 20, 2014, 09:47:21 pm »
+1
All the best Dave. I hope you won't be needed as soldier.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #365 on: February 20, 2014, 09:51:48 pm »
0
There is a difference between a soldier and an officer.

No, officers are still soldiers.
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #366 on: February 20, 2014, 10:18:20 pm »
0
But most soldiers aren't officers - so there's a difference.
All cats are animals but not all animals are cats.
Meaning lies as much
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as in the Haiku.

Offline xxkaliboyx

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #367 on: February 20, 2014, 10:32:38 pm »
+2
There is a difference between a soldier and an officer. It's already hard to punish or control even a sergeant who has a squad of 10 soldiers devoted to their direct commander, they follow only his direct orders. Nothing to say about officers, you simply have to destroy the whole subordinated platoon/company in order to execute the commanding officer. Also if I'll have such an order - trust me, I won't be the only officer who will refuse to obey.

In order to refuse mobilization - I have to violate the law so I can get to the prison which is even worse because I know that I'll be replaced by someone whom I can't be sure of. Because I can't be sure in anyone besides myself.

From one Soldier to another (Officer) good luck in your situation and hope you stay safe.
Deserter_Merrrrrica

Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #368 on: February 20, 2014, 10:47:03 pm »
+3
That's how I feel about revolution(
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Offline Beauchamp

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #369 on: February 21, 2014, 12:15:28 am »
+5
i'm really glad that my country got split 20 years ago and both slovaks and czechs just went their own way. i can't imagine any country can hold together (if not having a dictator) when people have completely different opinions on how and where their country should be heading, which is imo the main reason why all this started. anyways good luck to you dave.
OOODDIIINVALHALLAAAAAAA on the 20th of April 2011: What I know is that... heh, eh ja how can I explain? ...deh feeling to believe in Odin is right, dat is what I say, ja?!

Offline Matim

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #370 on: February 21, 2014, 12:19:00 am »
+1
i'm really glad that my country got split 20 years ago and both slovaks and czechs just went their own way. i can't imagine any country can hold together (if not having a dictator) when people have completely different opinions on how and where their country should be heading, which is imo the main reason why all this started. anyways good luck to you dave.

'murica!

Offline Jeade

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #371 on: February 21, 2014, 12:45:06 am »
+2
Found a number of updates here: www.reddit.com/r/ukrainianconflict

I hope those of you in Ukraine are as safe as you can be.
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Offline BASNAK

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #372 on: February 21, 2014, 01:07:06 am »
+1
What's the big difference between the Ukranian and Russian languages? Could a person that only was taught Ukrainian understand Russian?
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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #373 on: February 21, 2014, 01:28:17 am »
+2
What's the big difference between the Ukranian and Russian languages? Could a person that only was taught Ukrainian understand Russian?

I had a guy from Ukrainian family as my classmate years ago, and when we asked him everybody thought Russian at first, although without much of an accent, so he was born here anyway. Needless to say he was pissed off lol

They have unique words and meanings attached to them, told some examples but I forgot. They use the cyrillic alphabet and are both slavic languages, so it's really similar.

That's what he said back then, not 100% sure just how different they are in reality.
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Offline pepejul

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #374 on: February 21, 2014, 09:30:53 am »
+5
Listen the ukrainian policeman :
I LOVE YOU, ADMINS !

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