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Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 629363 times)

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Offline Moncho

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #240 on: January 31, 2014, 10:00:38 am »
+1
I have read in some places the notion of the violent protesters being (in part and in the beginning) paid by the government or other groups of people who are against them to cause violence where there was none and discredit the protesters in this way, justifying the police charges and escalation.
Not a new idea at all, but heard it in a couple of places already, and would be interesting to hear the opinions from people who are closer to it.

Offline Dark_Blade

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #241 on: January 31, 2014, 11:24:20 am »
+2
By the sound of police forces bludgeoning the protesters, I'd go with "It is forbidden as hell".
that was not just because people was protesting against the solution about Euro-union. that happened because demostrators was blocking the "maidan".
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I have read in some places the notion of the violent protesters being (in part and in the beginning) paid by the government or other groups of people who are against them to cause violence where there was none and discredit the protesters in this way, justifying the police charges and escalation.
Not a new idea at all, but heard it in a couple of places already, and would be interesting to hear the opinions from people who are closer to it.
provocateurs were from both sides. true. yeah there is some groups of people who dont care or\and prefer the current leaders so they are doing something for money... beating the demostrators included. however the best explaination of situation you can read in the Serr's post.
Quote
Situation here is very complicated and there is no way to say which side is right or wrong
just from my point of view - the person who started sh*t(organisated Maidan) should be blamed in everything... and international politic is the deal far away of the simple citizen so our president shouldnt be blamed in start of protest.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 11:27:55 am by Dark_Blade »
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #242 on: January 31, 2014, 11:39:28 am »
+1
that was not just because people was protesting against the solution about Euro-union. that happened because demostrators was blocking the "maidan".

So they can only "protest" if they don't do any harm and nobody is made aware of them? That is not protesting, and they have rights to protest and block roads in order to do so.

Offline Dark_Blade

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #243 on: January 31, 2014, 11:48:01 am »
+2
Quote
international politic is the deal far away of the simple citizen

and they have rights to protest and block roads in order to do so.
and its pretty retarded thing in democracy. its apriori cant be a peaceful demonstration if its blocking something...
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #244 on: January 31, 2014, 12:10:43 pm »
+1
and its pretty retarded thing in democracy. its apriori cant be a peaceful demonstration if its blocking something...

Yes it can. A few years ago for example, milk producers from many european union countries went to Brussels during an european summit and heavily disrupted traffic with their farming equipment, and also spilled loads of milk everywhere. That was perfectly peaceful, nobody got hurt, people heard about them, I think they got part of what they wanted, the end.

Offline Dark_Blade

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #245 on: January 31, 2014, 12:27:18 pm »
+2
but it touches god damn politics... for very importent things - voting is happening... in other cases - country's head is free to do whatever it want cuz it was elected by people. and I think mostly people who stand on Maidan wasnt voting for Yanukovich on president elections.
I think people who are in oposition to the current leaders shouldnt have that much administrative power in country than they currently have.
so all this just wasnt made to be ended peacfully because otherwise its pointless.
to be honest - it was also show of  current leader's power. as for me - thats right, because nobody needed the story from 2004-5 so better to end it before its got started... well this "Maidan" became much more epic than "Orange revolution"
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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #246 on: January 31, 2014, 01:03:41 pm »
0

should come out soon, I'm interested
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Offline Osiris

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #247 on: January 31, 2014, 05:07:30 pm »
+2
http://news.sky.com/story/1204304/ukraine-activist-crucified-and-had-ear-cut-off

Quote
A Ukrainian activist who went missing during anti-government protests has stumbled into a village near Kiev saying he was beaten and tortured.

Dmytro Bulatov, 35, told Ukraine's Channel 5 television: "They crucified me, they nailed down my hands. They cut off my ear, they cut my face. There isn't a spot on my body that hasn't been beaten."

noice
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Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #248 on: January 31, 2014, 05:23:23 pm »
+4
Quote
Dmytro Bulatov, 35, told Ukraine's Channel 5 television: "They crucified me, they nailed down my hands. They cut off my ear, they cut my face. There isn't a spot on my body that hasn't been beaten."

They who? Noone knows, and Klitschko comes to his hospital and drop further accusation of government. Government respond that nothing bad happened. UN "neutral" investigation going to find the real culprit ofc, not something/someone who would who would go along their global interest.  I wonder how many days till I quote myself about using wounded/dead to rise to power without normal election :P

Offline Spurdospera

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #249 on: January 31, 2014, 05:43:06 pm »
+1
They who?
Most likely some east ukrainians.

"The activist reportedly said he did not know who had abducted him but his abductors had spoken with Russian accents."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25977113
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Offline Sniger

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #250 on: January 31, 2014, 07:38:11 pm »
+1

Offline Ikarus

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #251 on: February 02, 2014, 02:37:50 am »
+1
as much as I love this video: wrong fucking thread
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Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #252 on: February 02, 2014, 10:17:39 am »
+1

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #253 on: February 02, 2014, 10:27:14 am »
+1
I have read in some places the notion of the violent protesters being (in part and in the beginning) paid by the government or other groups of people who are against them to cause violence where there was none and discredit the protesters in this way, justifying the police charges and escalation.
Not a new idea at all, but heard it in a couple of places already, and would be interesting to hear the opinions from people who are closer to it.

It's hard to say if part of protesters were paid by government. Opposition at the beginning said that all who came to Bankova Street on 1st December were paid. Probably that's true, but not even most of them. More likely there were several people who had to provoke fight, nothing more. And even that wasn't necessary in my opinion, fights would start without them. So yes, probably some part of protesters were paid by government, but that's not common and there are no proofs that even some of them were.

More common and much scarier is that government hires groups of gopniks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik to terrorize population. In Kiev they beat windows, single passers and do their best to make people more unhappy about these protests by causing more damage. Lately they went from this to burning cars. Though there are no 100% proofs that these guys(they commonly called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky lately) were hired by government it certainly looks like they were + once they were used by police as lure to capture group of protesters who were hunting for titushky.

However in eastern regions it's much worse. Here titushky openly attack protesters, sometimes some funny accidents happen, like when in Donetsk they made mistake and attacked group of government's supporters instead.
But somewhere(my city included) it is even worse. Here they attacked and brutally beat protesters shoulder to shoulder with police, chasing them on city streets for long time. And it cannot be lie, several people I know personally were there, one even got to hospital.

Quote
to be honest - it was also show of  current leader's power
I'd say it is likely to be the main reason for that. This perfectly worked in my city where they know people and could anticipate reaction, though even here it will likely backfire on next elections.
But as for other ukrainians... Our mighty leader can watch what's happening in western Ukraine and in center of Kiev and enjoy how powerful he is.

Quote
nobody needed the story from 2004-5 so better to end it before its got started...
Also quite doubtful statement. Though Yushchenko proved to be complete disappointment, it doesn't mean that Yanukovich is the best president we can hope for, I wouldn't even say that he is better. They are both terrible in different ways.
 

« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 11:25:04 am by serr »

Offline Dark_Blade

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #254 on: February 02, 2014, 12:22:40 pm »
+4
Also quite doubtful statement. Though Yushchenko proved to be complete disappointment, it doesn't mean that Yanukovich is the best president we can hope for
it does. both of them are not real rulers. sure there is other people are hiding behind their faces. Yushchenko means not just Yushchenko  but all this team ... even non democrative "Freedom" is from that party. same with Yanukovich because he is a face of all ukrainian mafia what trying to control ukraine and dont let the "foreign capital" capture the country.

this country leaders are better, as for me, because they are not destroying the economic as previos leaders was doing. yes, maybe ammount of bullshit from tv became lower cuz its became harder to talk whatever you want... but lets remember the retardness which was going on tv before it.

from the previos leaders I remember few things - full retarded culture... now education got some political colour (i was just looking at the books from 1995-2003 years - there wasnt anything about global politic)... with very specific views on some famous traitors and historical facts; sale of the Kryvorizh Stal to the businessman from India (with money what just fade out somewhere).

I am disagree with the one thing - while some people are protesting somewhere - the rest of people keep working... and for all restavrations money will be taken not just from demostrators but from everyone.

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