Meanwhile in Ukraine

[BlindGuy]

Check my analogy "The Ladder and the Fruit Tree" in the church/state thread. No more needs to be said.

There is no changing peoples greed. A revolution is essentially what it says, a TURN of a WHEEL, the wheel goes around, it makes a revolution, and everything stays the same.

One state will not change the situation. One million people will not change the situation.


But that Hussar on his horse is the most epic guy I've seen in weeks.

[Kafein]

Ukrainian youth is jobless, broke and pretty much pissed off. Like youth in every other post soviet country. It's not hard to mobilize them for whatever cause, if you know how to do it.

Leaders of these demonstrations, revolution, whatever, are the same scum as those currently in power. They are doing this to stop being the horse and become a rider instead, for few years to come.

There is no real revolution without blood. Ukrainians already did same shit years before and it didn't work. Same happened in my country and it didn't work. If you want it properly done, some heads gotta roll.

They probably expect their country to move away from Russian influence and go towards Europe but that's not possible because of location and other factors. There are big businesses going through Ukraine, which are controlled by Russians. EU is only doing this to get some leverage in the future, not because they care about Ukrainian people.

Different leaders and would-be leaders are from the same kind of demographics, everywhere you look. Usually, countries started taking off once they got one "corruption stops at the door of my office" kind of guy for a few years, which may take time and luck.

[Butan]

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Ukrainian youth is jobless, broke and pretty much pissed off. Like youth in every other post soviet country. It's not hard to mobilize them for whatever cause, if you know how to do it.

Leaders of these demonstrations, revolution, whatever, are the same scum as those currently in power. They are doing this to stop being the horse and become a rider instead, for few years to come.

There is no real revolution without blood. Ukrainians already did same shit years before and it didn't work. Same happened in my country and it didn't work. If you want it properly done, some heads gotta roll.

They probably expect their country to move away from Russian influence and go towards Europe but that's not possible because of location and other factors. There are big businesses going through Ukraine, which are controlled by Russians. EU is only doing this to get some leverage in the future, not because they care about Ukrainian people.

Totally agree.
But to debate there must be at least 2 point of views so:

Like BlindGuy/Kafein said, its an ultimate truth that cannot be changed, people want a change only if they think they will benefit from it.


I will add that a revolution - or turn of the wheel of history- doesnt necessarily mean that it goes around in a circle, changing nothing. I believe that at each new turn, we are going farther and farther from our humble beginning.

Let the wheel turn!

[BlindGuy]

Totally agree.
But to debate there must be at least 2 point of views so:

Like BlindGuy/Kafein said, its an ultimate truth that cannot be changed, people want a change only if they think they will benefit from it.


I will add that a revolution - or turn of the wheel of history- doesnt necessarily mean that it goes around in a circle, changing nothing. I believe that at each new turn, we are going farther and farther from our humble beginning.

Let the wheel turn!

I like the thinking that as a wheel, we are travelling with each revolution, but I'm not sure I fancy the destination.

[Kafein]

Well, I sure would not have fancied the Ancien Régime

[BlindGuy]

Probably not, but with my statement I didn't just mean those guys in UKR, but all of us. We seem to have lost that spirit that sent men to space and now we send people to bankruptcy instead.

[Kafein]

Probably not, but with my statement I didn't just mean those guys in UKR, but all of us. We seem to have lost that spirit that sent men to space and now we send people to bankruptcy instead.

Space programs didn't stop, they just got less impressive to the public.

[BlindGuy]

Well, I am personally really impressed. But we need to go further, find out more, and send a fucking proble to Wolf356 of w/e its called (I can find it just forgot) the planet in the Milky way that everyone from Dr. Carl Sagan to the Portuguese airforce knows has life on it, and see if they are 1/ correct that there is life there, and 2/ see if its at a level that we can communicate with it (too advanced or too backward and we will be wasting our time trying to communicate).

[Xant]

How could life be "too advanced" for communication to be possible?

[Molly]

Maybe they are beyond pressing simple air through a tube of meat but communicate on a level of light and thought... *written with the voice of some esoteric douche in mind*

[Kafein]

How could life be "too advanced" for communication to be possible?

Are we as humans able to communicate with other species through odors ? In short, no. Of course this is not a fitting analogy because odor communication doesn't involve technology. But I don't think many humans are still able to read smoke clouds either. So maybe, maybe very advanced civilizations would be too advanced to establish contact easily with us. Also mind you, they may (and probably do) have extremely different technological evolution, as it is clear human technological advancement has been predominantly governed by geopolitics. So they could be using gravitational waves without knowing what a radio is, although that sounds very unlikely. Finally, we don't know what materials are available to those alien species. We are very lucky to have found things like palladium on Earth, and countless other resources that exist in very limited supply yet are critical to modern technologies.

[Xant]

Are we as humans able to communicate with other species through odors ?

Irrelevant; though humans actually can "read" what the odors are saying.

But I don't think many humans are still able to read smoke clouds either.

So what? If it was another species communicating to us via smoke clouds, it would be decoded.

So maybe, maybe very advanced civilizations would be too advanced to establish contact easily with us.

I find that highly unlikely. If they are "very advanced", that requires intelligence and considerable amount of technology. If they have those, they will be able to communicate.

Finally, we don't know what materials are available to those alien species. We are very lucky to have found things like palladium on Earth, and countless other resources that exist in very limited supply yet are critical to modern technologies.

The premise is that they are very advanced.

[Butan]

They are could even be so advanced that they are invisible (in the sense that we have no way to tell they "are") or extinct. Oh, we were talking about Ukraine? 

[Yarl]

Mount and Blade 2: Ukraine

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2aUfBEKt3E#t=108

[the real god emperor]

We charged the riot before it was cool!