Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tibe]

As I said, I distinguish between the two big communist regimes (USSR and China) and the socialo-indenpendantist countries (Vietnam, Congo, Burkina-Faso, Cuba, Chile, etc), I am not saying they didn't kill anybody but they didn't kill so many for this agitated period and didn't commit mass murder like the US backed dictatorship have done.

I think you are wrong. US backed dictatorships have most certainly killed less. Depends how you define US backed dictatorship however. Do you count South Korea as US backed dictatorship? Cause SK is 50million people saved by the US and a modern country that surpasses all its other neibhours in just about everything. Including humanrights. The big problem with USSR is that USSR technically never lost, so a lot of mass-graves have yet to been recovered and all the proof has been denied and burned.

[Grytviken]

The definition of "backed" seems broad and can be used negatively about just about any nation. I'm sure you could pin Switzerland, Sweden, Iceland and other usually neutral countries to "backing" dictators and authoritarian regimes if you put a spin on it. When it comes to foreign policy if an enemy state with sociopath tendencies is willing to give nuclear weapons to unstable nations close to your boarders then things can get ugly.

Also

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Cuba

Cuba was not one of those "socio- passive" commie countries, they were highly unstable at the time and Russia deployed nuclear weapons there very well knowing that.

[Paul]

Well, but how many proofs have been eliminated by the US or US backed governments? I personally think that there is a shitload of stuff on both sides that haven't surfaced yet because the responsible people were actually doing a decent job. Especially on the South Korean side. Did anyone see Silmido, holy shit. Also the world cup matches of their team 2002 are proof enough that they are evil.

[Tibe]

I dont think the US army has ever had the habit of running around other countries villages, commiting a massmurder, torching the village and than throwing bodies in a giant hole. There probably is a high bodycount. But its definately not even close to USSR.

[Grytviken]

I dont think the US army has ever had the habit of running around other countries villages, commiting a massmurder, torching the village and than throwing bodies in a giant hole. There probably is a high bodycount. But its definately not even close to USSR.

 I don't think there is a Military in modern history (one that has gone to war at least) that has not committed some kind of war crime, war is ugly by nature, and especially with a mandatory draft your going to get all kinds of special people. The major problem is when the government of that said military condones or orders those kind of actions.

[Paul]

ok

[Grytviken]

ok

Yes disgusting, there was a large public outcry against this and a few soldiers there tried to stop it. Was there a large public outcry in Russia for this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

[Tibe]

ok

Daym. Never heard of that one. Jesus christ thats brutal. Again. Soviet Russia and China did something similar atleast 100 times. Lets not forget that nobody trialed the soviets or chinese. They are all still living with medals on their chests as decorated heroes.

[Paul]

Not having full control of the media is indeed a 'drawback' of the western system and that's why I prefer it by a mile. 

[Angantyr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program

The Program was designed to identify and "neutralize" (via infiltration, capture, terrorism, torture, and assassination) the infrastructure of the National Liberation Front of South Vietnam (NLF or Viet Cong).[2][3][4][5]

By 1972, Phoenix operatives had neutralized 81,740 suspected NLF operatives, informants and supporters, of whom between 26,000 and 41,000 were killed.

Allegations of torture

Methods of alleged torture said to have been used at the interrogation centers include:

    Rape, gang rape, rape using eels, snakes, or hard objects, and rape followed by murder; electric shock ('the Bell Telephone Hour') rendered by attaching wires to the genitals or other sensitive parts of the body, like the tongue; the 'water treatment'; the 'airplane' in which the prisoner's arms were tied behind the back, and the rope looped over a hook on the ceiling, suspending the prisoner in midair, after which he or she was beaten; beatings with rubber hoses and whips; the use of police dogs to maul prisoners.[17]

Military intelligence officer K. Milton Osborne purports to have witnessed the following use of torture:

    The use of the insertion of the 6-inch dowel into the canal of one of my detainee's ears, and the tapping through the brain until dead. The starvation to death (in a cage), of a Vietnamese woman who was suspected of being part of the local political education cadre in one of the local villages ... The use of electronic gear such as sealed telephones attached to ... both the women's vaginas and men's testicles [to] shock them into submission.[18]

The alleged torture was supposedly carried out by South Vietnamese forces with the CIA and special forces playing a supervisory role.[19]

Lieutenant Vincent Okamoto, an intelligence-liaison officer for the Phoenix Program for two months in 1968 and a recipient of the Distinguished Service Cross said the following:[24][25]

    The problem was, how do you find the people on the blacklist? It's not like you had their address and telephone number. The normal procedure would be to go into a village and just grab someone and say, 'Where's Nguyen so-and-so?' Half the time the people were so afraid they would not say anything. Then a Phoenix team would take the informant, put a sandbag over his head, poke out two holes so he could see, put commo wire around his neck like a long leash, and walk him through the village and say, 'When we go by Nguyen's house scratch your head.' Then that night Phoenix would come back, knock on the door, and say, 'April Fool, motherfucker.' Whoever answered the door would get wasted. As far as they were concerned whoever answered was a Communist, including family members. Sometimes they'd come back to camp with ears to prove that they killed people.

I've read some of the eye witness descriptions of the CIA operatives involved, it's some of the heavier stuff I've read in my life, up there with torture perpetrated by Saddam's old regime.

[Vovka]

The hate must flow 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program
I've read some of the eye witness descriptions of the CIA operatives involved, it's some of the heavier stuff I've read in my life, up there with torture perpetrated by Saddam's old regime.

try to check "Unit 731"

[Angantyr]

Yes, Japanese bio-chemical human experimentation is one of the worse crimes against humanity on record. And all the criminals went free.

[Vovka]

Yes, Japanese bio-chemical human experimentation is one of the worse crimes against humanity on record. And all the criminals went free.

to usa 

to be honest, many of these experiments have helped modern medicine, but still sucks to be one among these logs 

[Xant]

[Grytviken]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program


I've read some of the eye witness descriptions of the CIA operatives involved, it's some of the heavier stuff I've read in my life, up there with torture perpetrated by Saddam's old regime.

  Yes it was a dirty war on both sides, the Viet-Cong would also light civilians on fire with flamethrowers, villages and towns were mined and booby-trapped where US soldiers would be blown to pieces approaching them, but the thousands of civilians who farmed around the area and traveled back and forth to local villages went about their normal business unscathed knowing where all the mines were and never spoke up.
 
  Those wiki sources aren't exactly an objective analysis and many seem sketchy. Reading further it seems that these were joint operations between the CIA, the SVR and MAC-V to eliminate the organizational structure of the VC in these certain province so US troops would not have to occupy them. Though I don't doubt that alot of "special interrogation methods" and unnecessary killings took place in the process of trying to find these people. They were using a loophole in the system where they could advise the SVR to use unconventional methods to get information out of these prospective targets where US forces couldn't because of the Geneva convention, pretty shady but believable stuff, and a typical eye for an eye scenario gone vastly overboard.

to usa 

to be honest, many of these experiments have helped modern medicine, but still sucks to be one among these logs 

Unfortunately this is how the US justice system encourages criminals to speak up. Basically if they tell the truth and give up information their sentence is lessened, and for high priority cases of great importance the plea bargains are often more generous for the sake of finding out all the facts and they might even walk away free as part of the deal if they give up all the information they are looking for.