Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 625328 times)

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Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10200 on: July 17, 2015, 02:45:25 pm »
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Yes, that was like 70 years ago and totally different generation. Now current western kid drink Red Bull, eat McDonald's and exercise by watching action movies from Netflix.
Seventy years ago Finland's military was in shambles with barely any equipment. The current military has everything they could ever wish for, in comparison. The "kids these days" is a tired old cliché that even if true would also apply to Russians. Kids these days are actually healthier, stronger, taller, smarter and faster at adapting new things than they were 70 years ago. Fact.
Yes there are, fresh nature, fresh lake water and all the infrastructures already build just to annex
If you think Russia would want to become a permanent highly rogue state just for some fresh nature (+ have a much worse Chechnya on their hands), you don't know what you're talking about. This is after so much in losses that it would take them decades to recover.

Fuck wars, I'm too old for war'ing and shooting somewhere in deep forest eating shit food. Plus i have too much to lose irl, just to play some wargame, meh, sounds boring to me.
Uh, okay? And? I'm pretty sure Finland's defense doesn't rest entirely on your shoulders.

It always make me laugh when I see people sooo proud of not being tribalistic. You're the weird abberation, not "nationalists". You only have the luxury of seeing yourself entirely as an individual because a chain of your ancestors stretching back to the dawn of humanity did not. Tribalism, collective social constructs were an evolutionary advantage, and I'd argue still are.

I knew you'd arrive with your favorite speech when I mentioned tribalism. It's like the summon-Oberyn button.

What are you talking about? When did I claim it was normal not to be tribalistic? When did I claim I care? Why should I care about what natural selection programmed into humans? What does any of this have to do with anything I said?
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10201 on: July 17, 2015, 03:13:38 pm »
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What are you talking about? When did I claim it was normal not to be tribalistic? When did I claim I care? Why should I care about what natural selection programmed into humans? What does any of this have to do with anything I said?

I'm just saying it made me laugh. Because it is hilarious.

even if true would also apply to Russians. Kids these days are actually healthier, stronger, taller, smarter and faster at adapting new things than they were 70 years ago. Fact.

http://www.worldobesity.org/site_media/uploads/v2PDFforwebsiteEU27.pdf

Practically half your population is overweight. Almost 1/5th obese. Any other "facts" you want to give out? Those numbers were collected in the 90's too. It's much worse now.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10202 on: July 17, 2015, 03:33:06 pm »
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If it comes to war, obese will quickly shed those extra pounds in mobilization camps. And end up being much stronger than people were 70 years ago, because their government (any government) will pump them will all kinds of chemistry, just to succeed in protecting their homeland. These days, you can carve 200 kg slob into fucking Arnold Schwarzenegger in six months time.

Also, Russia attacking Finland and Baltics is just propaganda. Ain't going to happen. Doubt Russians ever considered it as viable. It is more of western media construct and it pops up everywhere these days, even in popular TV shows like The Strain (S02E01) where in one scene on the radio they are broadcasting this:

Quote
With Russia's surprise annexation of Latvia and Lithuania.

Here's the episode script if you don't believe me: http://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=the-strain-2014&episode=s02e01

Offline Paul

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10203 on: July 17, 2015, 03:56:06 pm »
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Fun fact, afaik the Finnish service rifle traditionally uses WP standard, like 7,62x54R or 7,62x39, so they can live off stolen/looted ammo in case of a war.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10204 on: July 17, 2015, 04:07:43 pm »
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Fun fact, afaik the Finnish service rifle traditionally uses WP standard, like 7,62x54R or 7,62x39, so they can live off stolen/looted ammo in case of a war.
x39.

I'm just saying it made me laugh. Because it is hilarious.

http://www.worldobesity.org/site_media/uploads/v2PDFforwebsiteEU27.pdf

Practically half your population is overweight. Almost 1/5th obese. Any other "facts" you want to give out? Those numbers were collected in the 90's too. It's much worse now.
Well, I'm glad you had a laugh because you saw your favorite word even if your subsequent post had nothing to do with anything.

Yes, "overweight", which means nothing.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Overweight_%283%29.jpg

Someone with that body type would be able to lose it very fast. And Infantry, the people who need to be fit, make up 15% (closer to 10% usually) of armed forces.

A study conducted in 2003 had actually slightly improved statistics. Any other facts you want?
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Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10205 on: July 17, 2015, 04:52:28 pm »
+1
Also, Russia attacking Finland and Baltics is just propaganda. Ain't going to happen. Doubt Russians ever considered it as viable. It is more of western media construct and it pops up everywhere these days, even in popular TV shows like The Strain (S02E01) where in one scene on the radio they are broadcasting this:


It's not a propaganda. Believe it or not but when in 2008 after Georgia they said that Ukraine (Crimea in particular) is next I was more like "what should happen for Russia to annex Crimea?", not that I entirely couldn't believe it but it was very unlikely. Crisis between Russia and Ukraine is a long story but I wouldn't expect it to be a war that fast. There are regions in Latvia which have the same situation as it was in Ukraine, there are regions that have overwhelming Russian population. They're not only Russian speaking but the majority of them have limited rights (they can't vote if I'm not mistaken). There are A LOT of russian speaking people living in Estonia (for example, 3rd largest city in Estonia: Narva. According to Wiki: 82,21% of population are Russians and only 3.75% of Estonians). What does it take for them to make propaganda machine work that way? "Russians are being humiliated! We can't let our brothers down!", some time later "Referendum in some city with Russians".

Also, Moldova. If you know Moldova still doesn't have any control over Transnistria which is widely supported exclusively by Russia.


Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10207 on: July 17, 2015, 05:27:26 pm »
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It's not a propaganda. Believe it or not but when in 2008 after Georgia they said that Ukraine (Crimea in particular) is next I was more like "what should happen for Russia to annex Crimea?", not that I entirely couldn't believe it but it was very unlikely. Crisis between Russia and Ukraine is a long story but I wouldn't expect it to be a war that fast. There are regions in Latvia which have the same situation as it was in Ukraine, there are regions that have overwhelming Russian population. They're not only Russian speaking but the majority of them have limited rights (they can't vote if I'm not mistaken). There are A LOT of russian speaking people living in Estonia (for example, 3rd largest city in Estonia: Narva. According to Wiki: 82,21% of population are Russians and only 3.75% of Estonians). What does it take for them to make propaganda machine work that way? "Russians are being humiliated! We can't let our brothers down!", some time later "Referendum in some city with Russians".

Also, Moldova. If you know Moldova still doesn't have any control over Transnistria which is widely supported exclusively by Russia.

Russians seized the opportunity in Ukraine. Without Maidan they couldn't attempt to annex Crimea as easily. As for Novorussia, yes it is supported and somewhat controlled by Russia but you don't understand mindset of people who live there. They consider themselves to be greater Russians than people who actually live in Russia. If you think that Russia backing off from eastern Ukraine will magically solve the issue, you are wrong.

Moldova and Ukraine aren't the same as Baltic states and Finland. Baltic states and Finland are part of NATO and EU and much more stable than countries such as Georgia/Moldova/Ukraine. You can't sell them revolution, they are past it. Therefore Russia have no alibi to interfere.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10208 on: July 17, 2015, 05:32:32 pm »
+1
It always make me laugh when I see people sooo proud of not being tribalistic. You're the weird abberation, not "nationalists". You only have the luxury of seeing yourself entirely as an individual because a chain of your ancestors stretching back to the dawn of humanity did not. Tribalism, collective social constructs were an evolutionary advantage, and I'd argue still are.

I couldn't care less about what helped my ancestors, and I don't think it's still an evolutionary advantage. It used to be when people lived in tribes of a hundred people under constant "warfare" with other tribes. Not so much today in developed, democratic countries with much of the world being accessible for travel, 99.9999% of the population of your "tribe" no even knowing you and the gene pool of all the tribes becoming more intermingled by the day.

Besides, why should I even care about evolutionary advantages to dictate my individual behavior?

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10209 on: July 17, 2015, 06:34:22 pm »
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To no one's surprise...

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/never-before-seen-footage-reveals-russian-backed-rebels-arriving-at-the-wreckage-of-mh17/story-fnizu68q-1227444676268
Video on that site doesn't work for me.
Snippets of the full length one.
Obviously fake by CIA/EU/NATO. Russia would never make mistakes and back the wrong side.
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10210 on: July 17, 2015, 06:50:32 pm »
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I couldn't care less about what helped my ancestors, and I don't think it's still an evolutionary advantage. It used to be when people lived in tribes of a hundred people under constant "warfare" with other tribes. Not so much today in developed, democratic countries with much of the world being accessible for travel, 99.9999% of the population of your "tribe" no even knowing you and the gene pool of all the tribes becoming more intermingled by the day.

Besides, why should I even care about evolutionary advantages to dictate my individual behavior?
Because it's hilarious!!!!!!!!!1111
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Offline Casimir

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10211 on: July 17, 2015, 08:47:34 pm »
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Yes, precisely. Why would my nationality have anything to do with my views?

1) Finland has nothing to fear from Russia. Finland is not Ukraine, and Russia knows it. There are no split loyalties here. Finland has successfully fought off Russia before. Finland has nothing that is important enough for Russia to lose all the men, resources and international standing it would take to wage a successful war. And that's not taking into account the perfect terrain for guerrilla war, the highest defense willingness in the Western world, the amount of guns owned by the population and the focus on guerrilla training in the military and the fact that pretty much every man knows how to shoot and work in squads. Unless Finland steals a nuke and uses it against Russia, they're not attacking.
2) I'm not a retarded nationalist. I am not my country. I did not choose to be born in Finland. I don't have tribalist feelings for my "fellow countrymen" just because they're "Finnish" and I'm "Finnish."

I'm very sorry if not being a nationalist is supremely hard for you to understand, must be a hard life getting offended for your country all the time. But I guess it pays off when you can celebrate your "country" winning a football match and act like you had a hand in it.

Yeah but whether you consciously choose to be a 'retarded nationalist' or not your culture, education and morality are all still affected by your country of birth and upbringing and so is your perspective on this discussion.  Also football is for pussies, rugby is way better.
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Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10212 on: July 17, 2015, 09:07:44 pm »
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Yeah but whether you consciously choose to be a 'retarded nationalist' or not your culture, education and morality are all still affected by your country of birth and upbringing and so is your perspective on this discussion.  Also football is for pussies, rugby is way better.
No, none of those are affected by my country of birth. I can assure you that my ethics differ drastically from the common Finnish ones and I take part in no "Finnish culture." I had no opinion about Russians until I started meeting a lot of them. And in point of fact, I think Putin is a really cool president and I'm kind of morbidly curious about what he'd be able to accomplish if he was the president of America instead of a country of dumb drunks.
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Offline Osakasa

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10213 on: July 17, 2015, 10:00:00 pm »
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I think Putin is a really cool president

A really cool president... pffff... jesus fucking hell. cooool, Putin is a really coool president. Sorry, just speechless.

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10214 on: July 17, 2015, 10:19:07 pm »
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A really cool president... pffff... jesus fucking hell. cooool, Putin is a really coool president. Sorry, just speechless.
Well argued.
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