Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

Seems you missed or didn't understand what Kremlin means

Do you know what Duma means? Because you completely missed the point

[[ptx]]

An orphaned cheetah becomes the best friend and pet of a young boy living in South Africa.

Thanks, i'll watch that sometime

[DonNicko]

Thanks, i'll watch that sometime

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada
Kremlin is another thing, learn it

[Molly]

Casimir stop writing here, somebody can't understand your point anyhow. For them it is just impossible

I understand his point perfectly well. It just so happens that I do not agree with it. I even think that he contradicts himself.

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too."
-Voltaire

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
-George Orwell

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Vovka]

I understand his point perfectly well. It just so happens that I do not agree with it. I even think that he contradicts himself.

"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so, too."
-Voltaire

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
-George Orwell

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

Your Google Search Skills inproved +3

[Casimir]

Casimir claims that state sovereignty is of utmost importance to him and then denies them exactly that by not allowing those states to decide "We want to be NATO!".
Who are you and who is Russia to decide that they shouldn't?

Yes and with sovereignty comes a responsibility. My criticism is not towards the small eastern European states, who are quite understandably threatened by RF, but of NATO's lack of consideration of the diplomatic consequences of expanding its membership to them.  I understand the reasons for it and as I said before I just think that its overtly hostile and inflamatory.  Of course it's not for Russia to decide the future of Eastern Europe, but there are better ways to ensure peace than by enlarging  military blocks.  (Also EU membership would be enough to garuntee this, NATO is a distinctly more provocative group)

[DaveUKR]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma
Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada
Kremlin is another thing, learn it

Yep, Duma is just a ridiculous place full of Putin's puppets same as your Federation Council. Not even there anyone could have an opinion: did anyone just vote AGAINST??!!!! BURN HIM!!!!

What do you expect? More than a half of Duma are Putin's bribeboys, the second biggest power are communists (more than 20%), lol.

[DaveUKR]

Yes and with sovereignty comes a responsibility. My criticism is not towards the small eastern European states, who are quite understandably threatened by RF, but of NATO's lack of consideration of the diplomatic consequences of expanding its membership to them.  I understand the reasons for it and as I said before I just think that its overtly hostile and inflamatory.  Of course it's not for Russia to decide the future of Eastern Europe, but there are better ways to ensure peace than by enlarging  military blocks.  (Also EU membership would be enough to garuntee this, NATO is a distinctly more provocative group)

I highly doubt that. EU as a military organization is like a kid who attended karate classes for 2 months: thinks that he's powerful enough to fight but in real threat has no guts to even do anything. Same with many other organizations: OSCE, UN etc.

Remember 1994's Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances? We discussed it in the past. Guess what, it didn't work. What's more pathetic that Russia who signed it is the one that is supposed to be defended against.  And then it was asked about it: Putin was like "there was a revolution in Ukraine, we signed this document with previous Ukraine, not this Ukraine". That's just utter trolling and bullshit. Works just fine for the majority of Russians though: "Huehuehue, Putin is so smart, I'll drink my vodka for him (which is cheaper than water)"

[Xant]

Yes and with sovereignty comes a responsibility. My criticism is not towards the small eastern European states, who are quite understandably threatened by RF, but of NATO's lack of consideration of the diplomatic consequences of expanding its membership to them.  I understand the reasons for it and as I said before I just think that its overtly hostile and inflamatory.  Of course it's not for Russia to decide the future of Eastern Europe, but there are better ways to ensure peace than by enlarging  military blocks.  (Also EU membership would be enough to garuntee this, NATO is a distinctly more provocative group)

That's just retarded. Of course countries near Russia want to join NATO, they're the ones that need it. If Russia isn't going to attack them, it doesn't need to worry about NATO either. And no, there really are no better ways to ensure peace than military alliances, as anyone can see from Ukraine's situation. Russia still acts like the Soviet Union and Ukraine's left alone to deal with it because it's not in NATO.

You also failed to explain how my being Finnish has anything to do with anything.

[Casimir]

Well sharing the largest European land border with RF and being a potential NATO member I'd say you are hardly goiny to be coming from an objective standpoint.

Ukraine isn't left alone and has recieved support from NATO & EU countries, any direct military intervention would end in a diplomatic disaster and more violence.

[[ptx]]

But then again, having had no experience of Kremlin politics affecting you or your country in a significant way, you can hardly be objective as well.

[Kafein]

Yes and with sovereignty comes a responsibility. My criticism is not towards the small eastern European states, who are quite understandably threatened by RF, but of NATO's lack of consideration of the diplomatic consequences of expanding its membership to them.  I understand the reasons for it and as I said before I just think that its overtly hostile and inflamatory.  Of course it's not for Russia to decide the future of Eastern Europe, but there are better ways to ensure peace than by enlarging  military blocks.  (Also EU membership would be enough to garuntee this, NATO is a distinctly more provocative group)

Russia was seriously invited to NATO and there were plans for a step-by-step integration in the EU back in the 90s and early 00s. What you're saying is a complete anachronism.

[DaveUKR]

Ukraine isn't left alone and has recieved support from NATO & EU countries, any direct military intervention would end in a diplomatic disaster and more violence.

That's not really support and definitely not a support for a defending country against Russia. The only possible valuable helping sources I see are US, Poland and Baltics. The country you currently live in suggested some old vehicles (without weaponry) to buy for a little bit lower price, we bought it ofc but still it's just business, you would get rid of them just like US throwing their tanks in the Pacific ocean. But 20 years ago your country (US and also RF) guaranteed help in such situations. It was like "why do you need nuclear weapons anyway? We're 3 major powers and we guarantee you won't even need it". I guess having nuclear weapons Ukraine would be a much considerable in current state (Ukraine had 3rd or 4th nuclear potential in the world, correct me if i'm mistaken).

[Grytviken]

The US will have lasers and flying aircraft carriers by 2020. We are gearing up for a war against aliens, not Russia, Russia is obsolete.

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 Mil spending by billions.

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[Vovka]

We're 3 major powers and we guarantee you won't even need it". I guess having nuclear weapons Ukraine would be a much considerable in current state (Ukraine had 3rd or 4th nuclear potential in the world, correct me if i'm mistaken).

  why not. Ukraine already has the best army on the continent, it's time to move on and become a nuclear power, and then into space... to Mars, you have the potential