Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 625018 times)

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Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10155 on: July 16, 2015, 12:23:27 am »
+1
I think the main difference is.. Yes they joined NATO, mostly for the article 5 guaranteeing the assitance of the other states.

in practice NATO troops didn't get stationed in any meaningful numbers in any new members, because they didn't want to provoke Russia. Compare this in contrast with the massive military exercises and provocations RF has been running.

Only after Ukraine NATO started demonstrating deployment as an answer to RF actions. Before the fact, they kept out and away. There was and are ZERO signs that NATO actually wants to attack or contain RF in any military way.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 01:02:56 am by Thomek »
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Kafein

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10156 on: July 16, 2015, 12:54:58 am »
0
however NATO must accept that it's actions have directly contributed to increased aggression from RF.

What actions?

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10157 on: July 16, 2015, 01:27:51 am »
0
He means you're an obtrusive moron.
At least I'm not a gay midget in pink bikinis, so I've got that going for me.
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10158 on: July 16, 2015, 01:28:09 am »
-1
What actions?
sponsorship of all fighters for independence near RF boarder, such as the Taliban, Chechen Republic of Ichkeria etc)
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Offline Casimir

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10159 on: July 16, 2015, 03:38:51 am »
-1
Just as the Kremlin has done more than its fair share of destabilisation and sponsorship of rebels, this crisis aptly proves it to be true.  The sad fact is that thousands of innocent people loose their lives so these politicians can further their own aims; its disgusting really and more sicking is the fact that some would even defend such behaviour.


What actions?

Actions such as accepting new members, increasing the size of it's military capabilities and removing any neutral zones of influence between Russia and NATO. If CSTO's membership had grown under any circumstances as much as NATO's had western governments would not be sitting idly by and letting it happen.


I think the main difference is.. Yes they joined NATO, mostly for the article 5 guaranteeing the assitance of the other states.

in practice NATO troops didn't get stationed in any meaningful numbers in any new members, because they didn't want to provoke Russia. Compare this in contrast with the massive military exercises and provocations RF has been running.

Only after Ukraine NATO started demonstrating deployment as an answer to RF actions. Before the fact, they kept out and away. There was and are ZERO signs that NATO actually wants to attack or contain RF in any military way.

But Russia has always feared this, it's something that was made quite clear in the post soviet period that that was a major concern of the RF so why would NATO do something that? NATO chiefs must surely have realised that the Kremlin will see as an attempt at encirclement/isolation, how the hell could they not?  As such NATO has deliberately 'poked the bear' expanding its membership right up to Russia's border states.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 03:44:48 am by Casimir »
Turtles

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10160 on: July 16, 2015, 06:23:52 am »
0
Actions such as accepting new members, increasing the size of it's military capabilities and removing any neutral zones of influence between Russia and NATO. If CSTO's membership had grown under any circumstances as much as NATO's had western governments would not be sitting idly by and letting it happen..
So NATO shouldn't accept new members because Russia will get upset that it can't invade neighboring countries at will?
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10161 on: July 16, 2015, 10:05:18 am »
0
Casimir claims that state sovereignty is of utmost importance to him and then denies them exactly that by not allowing those states to decide "We want to be NATO!".
Who are you and who is Russia to decide that they shouldn't?
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10162 on: July 16, 2015, 10:13:09 am »
0
Casimir claims that state sovereignty is of utmost importance to him and then denies them exactly that by not allowing those states to decide "We want to be NATO!".
Who are you and who is Russia to decide that they shouldn't?
I can only second that. Being from one of those small ex-ussr states - joining NATO and EU were the best things that happened since we got back our independence IMO and thank god noone asked russias oppinion.

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10163 on: July 16, 2015, 10:28:15 am »
0
Casimir stop writing here, somebody can't understand your point anyhow. For them it is just impossible

Offline Xant

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10164 on: July 16, 2015, 11:04:03 am »
0
Casimir stop writing here, somebody can't understand your point anyhow. For them it is just impossible
Prove it or it's not true.
Meaning lies as much
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Offline Osakasa

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10165 on: July 16, 2015, 11:08:17 am »
0
Casimir stop writing here...
Please, it's normal in western culture that people are telling their opinions, there is nothing wrong about it. It's something we call "freedom of speech". You can't tell someone to stop writing.

...somebody can't understand your point anyhow. For them it is just impossible
What, who are you to tell what we understand or not? I'm sorry to tell you but you are the one who have some difficulties to understand. I'm sure because we use english, you know other languages as you have told before. Still I have to say that your english has become much better that it used to be ~50 pages ago, good job :)

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10166 on: July 16, 2015, 11:46:02 am »
0
What, who are you to tell what we understand or not? I'm sorry to tell you but you are the one who have some difficulties to understand. I'm sure because we use english, you know other languages as you have told before. Still I have to say that your english has become much better that it used to be ~50 pages ago, good job :)
Thanks, I use english only in this forum.
BTW right now Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt in Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. This is independence  :D

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10167 on: July 16, 2015, 11:48:45 am »
0
Here's more independence:
(click to show/hide)
Yay, things that must mean something!

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10168 on: July 16, 2015, 11:53:24 am »
0
Here's more independence:
(click to show/hide)
Yay, things that must mean something!
Seems you missed or didn't understand what Verkhovna Rada means

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #10169 on: July 16, 2015, 12:00:10 pm »
0
Seems you missed or didn't understand what Verkhovna Rada means
Seems you missed or didn't understand what Kremlin means