Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DaveUKR]

they were not empty, it was Shirokino, but you are too dumb to admit it.

Prove it or never happened.

[DonNicko]

Prove those were civilian houses, not separatists or never happened.

Also, cba to find our previous conversation, here are quotes from that page that you quoted.

You reply to me with:
Reply to vovka.

But your first reaction was to justify her. It is kinda obvious 

[Molly]

But your first reaction was to justify her. It is kinda obvious that I don't know what I am actually talking about

[DaveUKR]

But your first reaction was to justify her. It is kinda obvious 

Prove it or it never happened.

[Casimir]

Casimir, your wrote well last few posts and I agreed with you but please...

Don't make yourself Tovi, soon you will find doing Slav Squat if you "see" or "believe" these kind of things  . Nato is a defence alliance, it is not used to get political power via military operations. Current The Secretary General of Nato is a norwegian, and actually never been US citizen [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_Secretaries_General

Sorry to jump back to this just want to clarify that a defensive alliance can still be used for the projection of power; due to the greater military power of the U.S. as a sovereign nation in NATO means that its influence is overwhelming compared with other members. I'm not a tovi (best insult ) but I'm just not a fan of big military alliances of any kind as they set a tone of international relations as one of inate hostility; that said they of course have their place in the real world.

You can all go back to your shit posting.

[Xant]

they were not empty, it was Shirokino, but you are too dumb to admit it.

Prove it or it never happened.

[Tibe]

Sorry to jump back to this just want to clarify that a defensive alliance can still be used for the projection of power; due to the greater military power of the U.S. as a sovereign nation in NATO means that its influence is overwhelming compared with other members. I'm not a tovi (best insult ) but I'm just not a fan of big military alliances of any kind as they set a tone of international relations as one of inate hostility; that said they of course have their place in the real world.

You can all go back to your shit posting.

True. But without NATOs power that it gets mainly from the US some countries wouldn't even exist anymore. In example...well...mine. Quite simply put Russia is a real threat to countries in Eastern Europe who REALLY don't want anything to do with them. They can repeat constatly how they havent done anything compared to the US to make people have "such false impression", but that does not make them any less hostile. Not even close. NATOs power in the region is what keeps Russia in check. If the US was some feeble country that minded its own buisness and Russia had the resource and power USA currently wields it would have probably occupied and burned 40% of Europe by now and probably half way to the Middle-East aswell.

Russians are easy to criticise USA abusing its power, but I think they too know well enough, if they had such power, they would do much, much worse.

[Casimir]

True. But without NATOs power that it gets mainly from the US some countries wouldn't even exist anymore. In example...well...mine. Quite simply put Russia is a real threat to countries in Eastern Europe who REALLY don't want anything to do with them. They can repeat constatly how they havent done anything compared to the US to make people have "such false impression", but that does not make them any less hostile. Not even close. NATOs power in the region is what keeps Russia in check. If the US was some feeble country that minded its own buisness and Russia had the resource and power USA currently wields it would have probably occupied and burned 40% of Europe by now and probably half way to the Middle-East aswell.

Russians are easy to criticise USA abusing its power, but I think they too know well enough, if they had such power, they would do much, much worse.

Well you aren't exactly objective in this due to the obvious, the same with Xant, Dave, Vovka and Don.  I'm not either but I can understand why russians take issue with the expansion of NATO.  Don't get me wrong, I believe in democratic self determination and the rights of soverign states; however NATO must accept that it's actions have directly contributed to increased aggression from RF.

[Tibe]

True. I too can understand why Russians take issue with NATOs expansion, but that doesnt make me less objective. Obviously when one side pushes, the other one pushes back and both sides will claim that the other side started pushing first.

Looking from my backyard it seems very clear who the "badguy" is. Understanding why russians take issue of natos expansion gives little comfort and honestly majority of these issues are basically in a form of farfetched conspiracy theories. Which begs me to believe they are faaar less objective than I am.

[Xant]

Well you aren't exactly objective in this due to the obvious, the same with Xant, Dave, Vovka and Don.  I'm not either but I can understand why russians take issue with the expansion of NATO.  Don't get me wrong, I believe in democratic self determination and the rights of soverign states; however NATO must accept that it's actions have directly contributed to increased aggression from RF.

Wat, do tell what the obvious reason why I'm not objective is?

[Osakasa]

I'm not either but I can understand why russians take issue with the expansion of NATO.

I too can understand why Russians take issue with NATOs expansion, but that doesnt make me less objective. Obviously when one side pushes..

Lol, Nato isn't expanding on its own neither pushes toward Russian It's simply the otherway round, neighbour countries of Russian have invited Nato. More precisely, all Nato countries have requested membership, Nato simply doesn't expand inside other countries borders, like some-dudes-with-weapons-and-all-kind-of-supplyline near Ukraine border. Please, notice the difference. And why Nato is "expading" toward Russian, yeah, there might be reasons, somewhere at political leader(s). ahaha, I don't even myself believe there is use for "s"

[Casimir]

Wat, do tell what the obvious reason why I'm not objective is?

You are Finnish right?

Lol, Nato isn't expanding on its own neither pushes toward Russian It's simply the otherway round, neighbour countries of Russian have invited Nato. More precisely, all Nato countries have requested membership, Nato simply doesn't expand inside other countries borders, like some-dudes-with-weapons-and-all-kind-of-supplyline near Ukraine border. Please, notice the difference. And why Nato is "expading" toward Russian, yeah, there might be reasons, somewhere at political leader(s). ahaha, I don't even myself believe there is use for "s"

Whether members ask to join or we're invited is irrelevant, NATO has grown while the Kremlins influence has subsided; NATO members old and new should accept some responsibility for this aggravating the Kremlin.

[Tibe]

(click to show/hide)

Lol, Nato isn't expanding on its own neither pushes toward Russian It's simply the otherway round, neighbour countries of Russian have invited Nato. More precisely, all Nato countries have requested membership, Nato simply doesn't expand inside other countries borders, like some-dudes-with-weapons-and-all-kind-of-supplyline near Ukraine border. Please, notice the difference. And why Nato is "expading" toward Russian, yeah, there might be reasons, somewhere at political leader(s). ahaha, I don't even myself believe there is use for "s"

Yeah. Eastern EU even begged to be in Nato and EU. There was no forcing or bulling from the Wests side. There was a massive chance of even getting denied. But ofcourse the propagaded morons in the East ignore that fact completely and claim that we have been fed false Western propaganda by US to make Russia seem like a threat so that we could let Nato inside our countries without any suspicious. And ofcourse those morons forget the quite simple fact, that we live right next to them, there is no need for Western middlemen and the Kremlin directly says it into our faces how much it hates us, making itself seem like an aggressive cunt.

Whether members ask to join or we're invited is irrelevant, NATO has grown while the Kremlins influence has subsided; NATO members old and new should accept some responsibility for this aggravating the Kremlin.

And than what? Everyone cools down? Quite unlikely. Russia will just use it as a clear claim that in light of nato accepting that responsibility, it is entirely in their rights to be aggressive and they will continue to do so. To be honest I don't see this whole mess cooling down any time real soon, even after Ukraine. The stand-off with Russia will get inevitably worse before it gets better.

[Xant]

You are Finnish right?

Yes... and?

[Siiem]

Yes... and?

He means you're an obtrusive moron.