Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

Both sides did dumb shit, but only ONE side annexed part of another friendly brotherly country and only one side created war in another part of the brotherly friendly nation. There are two sides of the low intensity dissagrements between different regions of Ukraine and then there is "over 9000" side that russia created and is pushing for. You are ignoring the fact, that if not for russia - dissagreements would have been there, but there would be no fucking war, destruction, etc.

Kuujis, I understand that and agree with that, now try to understand me. If there wasn't any revolution, which were supported by the west and "кто не скачет тот москаль", there weren't any bad actions from Russia. There was a sighned agreement where Yanukovich agreed with all requirements of maidan. To avoid problems, West had to interfere this revolution, and insist on implementation of the agreement.

[DaveUKR]

Seems you are lost in your fantasies, you really don't get what I'm talking about.

Nobody does, that's the problem. Go get a treatment.

Now that girl that launched a rocket into Shirokino was the one who killed 2 militia men in Kiev. Yes and you tried to justify her.

If you're such a quoteworm seeking for my messages - don't take my words out of context then. Read the next fucking page:

Just admit that she stupid bitch, and wanted to make nice video.

She is, it's kinda obvious. I'm also sceptical about the whole Aydar batallion.

[DonNicko]

I read it, and your first movement was to justify her

[DaveUKR]

I read it, and your first movement was to justify her

You are an impossible idiot. I've just added you to ignore list not to see your posts any more. I wonder why I didn't do this months ago.

[DonNicko]

You are an impossible idiot. I've just added you to ignore list not to see your posts any more. I wonder why I didn't do this months ago.

Sorry, Dave I just trolled you, because of your statements about Odessa and some other's like Bydlo

[Tibe]

Kuujis, I understand that and agree with that, now try to understand me. If there wasn't any revolution, which were supported by the west and "кто не скачет тот москаль", there weren't any bad actions from Russia. There was a sighned agreement where Yanukovich agreed with all requirements of maidan. To avoid problems, West had to interfere this revolution, and insist on implementation of the agreement.

Why not just accept the revolution? Why would it have been so impossible for Russia to just be friends with the new government?

[DonNicko]

Why not just accept the revolution? Why would it have been so impossible for Russia to just be friends with the new government?

I think becuase Maidan was anti-russian. And they ignored russian interests, because of that Russia acted like an Ass somewhere. I think new government made a lot of political faults or they were forced to do that.
And why not follow the agreement that was sighned before revolution?

[Kuujis]

Kuujis, I understand that and agree with that, now try to understand me. If there wasn't any revolution, which were supported by the west and "кто не скачет тот москаль", there weren't any bad actions from Russia. There was a sighned agreement where Yanukovich agreed with all requirements of maidan. To avoid problems, West had to interfere this revolution, and insist on implementation of the agreement.

Western support - there are pronounciations "we stand with you" and there is massive media bullshit campaign activated from russia. Thats barely comparable, and this is what was happening from the start.
Western leaders came to mediate once the crisis was already in the swing. People said - fuck the mediation, current government sucks too much... To be fair - I understand why people said so too, while you do not, but as you mentione - oppinion of the people has to be respected right?
West had NO obligations to fix anything, west tried their best to mediate and it did not work. Tough luck. However rUSSIA had an obligation as a sovereign SEPARATE nation to allow the country to solve its own problems isntead of meddling, instead, due to being butthurt - aggression was started (via media first, then via little green men) and was escalated to the levels seen today, with peaks being Ilovaisk, storming of airport and eventually completely cynical russian action in Debaltsevo even after Minsk II.

And that shit continues to this day with barely any end in sight, while russian sheeple believe they are fighting agains Ukrainian naztees...

[DonNicko]

Western support - there are pronounciations "we stand with you" and there is massive media bullshit campaign activated from russia. Thats barely comparable, and this is what was happening from the start.
Western leaders came to mediate once the crisis was already in the swing. People said - fuck the mediation, current government sucks too much... To be fair - I understand why people said so too, while you do not, but as you mentione - oppinion of the people has to be respected right?
West had NO obligations to fix anything, west tried their best to mediate and it did not work. Tough luck. However rUSSIA had an obligation as a sovereign SEPARATE nation to allow the country to solve its own problems isntead of meddling, instead, due to being butthurt - aggression was started (via media first, then via little green men) and was escalated to the levels seen today, with peaks being Ilovaisk, storming of airport and eventually completely cynical russian action in Debaltsevo even after Minsk II.

And that shit continues to this day with barely any end in sight, while russian sheeple believe they are fighting agains Ukrainian naztees...

Really, Kuujis, at least we have some logic in our discussion now. The last example of USA involvement in Ukraine - Kolomoysky was fired after he visited the US Ambassador and then he went to USA. ATO was started after visiting of Biden. And so on. It is not only mediation. I understand what for people stood on maidan, and Yanukovich was ashit president like Yeltsin in Russia before. And you can find in internet how maidan people were happy when Yanukovich was forced to sighn all their requirements. It could be peaceful. Many people in Crimea and Donbass were against this maidan, but everything was about peaceful. Why they made this revolution when they reached what they wanted? I think current power just used "Right Sector" to become new power. Russia used it and opened huge propoganda, I don't remember any propoganda before revolution in Russia. So... why Donbass people think that Kiev is a nazi, you can find in this video, it is not russian, ukrainian politic say about why people in Donbass are ready to be annexed by Russia, if you understand Russian, if not I will try to translate what he say later.

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[Casimir]

I think becuase Maidan was anti-russian. And they ignored russian interests, because of that Russia acted like an Ass somewhere.

How dare another sovereign nation have interests that are counter to those of glorious mother Russia, totally unacceptable...

How about you forget the politics which your government has propagated to justify its land grab and accept that this pathetic conflict is unnecessarily destabilising another country and your government is actively allowing its citizens (if not being directly involved itself) to contribute to this, leading to the deaths of thousands of innocent people without bringing any benefits.  Putin's government is a fucking abomination in what should be one of the developed world leading nations, yet the Russian people seem happy to let him be and blame their problems on others, it's ludicrous.

[DonNicko]

How dare another sovereign nation have interests that are counter to those of glorious mother Russia, totally unacceptable...

How about you forget the politics which your government has propagated to justify its land grab and accept that this pathetic conflict is unnecessarily destabilising another country and your government is actively allowing its citizens (if not being directly involved itself) to contribute to this, leading to the deaths of thousands of innocent people without bringing any benefits.  Putin's government is a fucking abomination in what should be one of the developed world leading nations, yet the Russian people seem happy to let him be and blame their problems on others, it's ludicrous.

On one hand yes, if I were Ukrainian president I would visit Donbass, contact with Putin and find some solutions, I would show russian world that we are friends. Poroshenko said that he will visit Donbass and will answer all requirements of Donbass, instead of that he didn't visit Donbass but started new wave of ATO(first of all because of that many civilians were killed), used aggresive rhetoric against Russia. Really that was dumb.
Russia must be one of the leading country, but corruption is too much even now. If we would make revolution in Russia, it won't help anyhow. Because revolution in Russia never ended good.

[Tibe]

On one hand yes, if I were Ukrainian president I would visit Donbass, contact with Putin and find some solutions, I would show russian world that we are friends. Poroshenko said that he will visit Donbass and will answer all requirements of Donbass, instead of that he didn't visit Donbass but started new wave of ATO(first of all because of that many civilians were killed), used aggresive rhetoric against Russia. Really that was dumb.
Russia must be one of the leading country, but corruption is too much even now. If we would make revolution in Russia, it won't help anyhow. Because revolution in Russia never ended good.

Every country and politican on earth knows that only aggressive rhetoric works when talking with russian politicians. Everything less is an instant even bigger failure. A lot of books have been written on how to negotiate terms with Russia(or USSR). Anyone who has ever negotiated with Russia and has given in to some of its demands have always been forced to give out a lot more in the end and have always come out as devastating losers. Infront of the negotiationtable, Russia is always a hustler.

[Siiem]

Every country and politican on earth knows that only aggressive rhetoric works when talking with russian politicians. Everything less is an instant even bigger failure. A lot of books have been written on how to negotiate terms with Russia(or USSR). Anyone who has ever negotiated with Russia and has given in to some of its demands have always been forced to give out a lot more in the end and have always come out as devastating losers. Infront of the negotiationtable, Russia is always a hustler.

So what you're saying is, Russia is a bunch of jews?

[Kuujis]

Really, Kuujis, at least we have some logic in our discussion now. The last example of USA involvement in Ukraine - Kolomoysky was fired after he visited the US Ambassador and then he went to USA. ATO was started after visiting of Biden. And so on. It is not only mediation.

We can agree to disagree if you want to, but this is wishful thinking and attempts at seeing relations where there might have been only coincidences. WHOLE of the west suffered from what was called by some "Ukraine weariness", because Yanu was wearing down on everyones nerves and nothing ever got actually done. In the end - people of Ukraine got pissed off when the agreement was not signed, not the west.

I understand what for people stood on maidan, and Yanukovich was ashit president like Yeltsin in Russia before. And you can find in internet how maidan people were happy when Yanukovich was forced to sighn all their requirements. It could be peaceful. Many people in Crimea and Donbass were against this maidan, but everything was about peaceful. Why they made this revolution when they reached what they wanted? I think current power just used "Right Sector" to become new power. Russia used it and opened huge propoganda, I don't remember any propoganda before revolution in Russia.

Sincerely - HEAVY anti-maidan reporting in russian media started WAY before the whole culmination happened. So thats first.
Second - I think a lot of people simply did not want to wait for half a year until their lying thieving president finished stealing what he could and dump all the loose threads into deepest lakes. Its a very simple, yet very understandable explanation. Denying it would take some serious proofs IMO.
Third - while Right Sector WAS there - their participation and impact was overblown by none other than russian media. Elections afterwards were very illustrative on that. And someone using them? Either proove it or keep it to yourself. It sounds too much like tin-foil-hat stuff.

So... why Donbass people think that Kiev is a nazi, you can find in this video, it is not russian, ukrainian politic say about why people in Donbass are ready to be annexed by Russia, if you understand Russian, if not I will try to translate what he say later.

(click to show/hide)

I'm sorry, but judging by date its WAY past the crap-lagoon, which was fabricated by russian media, so the "beliefs" of people in those regions were a victory of aggressive russian hybrid war, waged via media first, backed by real military power second. Reporting on those beliefs as being reasonable or objective would be giving russian media the same credit and I would suggest you do neither.

Better question to you: why russia should be waging hybrid war (meaning -media + deniable troops + immitations of local insurgents) on a friendly nation?

On one hand yes, if I were Ukrainian president I would visit Donbass, contact with Putin and find some solutions, I would show russian world that we are friends.

So.. if Poland annexed Konigsberg (or Germany) and then began thinking about returning former Finland lands (pre-WW2) back to the "legitimate family of European Nations", started creating insurgency there, massive media attacks and propaganda bullshit... you being putler... you would visit those former Finland areas, forget about Kaliningrad, and talk about solutions? You really see that happening?

Poroshenko said that he will visit Donbass and will answer all requirements of Donbass, instead of that he didn't visit Donbass but started new wave of ATO(first of all because of that many civilians were killed), used aggresive rhetoric against Russia. Really that was dumb.
Russia must be one of the leading country, but corruption is too much even now. If we would make revolution in Russia, it won't help anyhow.

Sorry, thats your media talking again. I don't see president visiting a war zone being a successful move.

Because revolution in Russia never ended good.

I beg to dissagree. After your last crash - I got to choose where my future is: in russias "friends" list or Europe/NATO. I consider that a good end. Sadly - you and your compatriots chose something else and are now angry at others, who start to rethink their "friends" and previous choices.

[Tibe]

So what you're saying is, Russia is a bunch of jews?

If a bunch of stealing gypsies decided to make a country it would be something similar to Russia. Jews? Nah, jews are good with money and generally sober, while ruskies arent.