Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Corwin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovan_independence_referendum,_1991

Leshma, you are as useful as usual. That referendum did not happen. Can you provide any other source than that Wikipedia article? The Government of Serbia denied such claim when it was brought up by Americans, and no one was able to offer any proof.

Just look at this article you posted:

An independence referendum was held in Kosovo, then known as the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Metohija between 26 and 30 September 1991. The dissolved Provincial Assembly had declared the Republic of Kosova a sovereign and independent state on 22 September 1991.

First, they don't even know the date of the referendum. It was held on one of these five dates between 26 and 30 September. And then, all representatives of Assembly of Kosovo travel back in time together and declare independence 4 days before the referendum. Really useful.

[Corwin]

I will never understand how one can fall for this bullshit argument. Yes, Kosovo's secession was illegal and probably one of the many terrible mistakes and crimes committed by USA (or their influence). But a) how does this makes actions of Russia better and b) how is this related to an annexation because Kosovo is now an (unstable) independent State while Crimea became part of Russia?

Russia planned to get crimea, send troops in, hold up pseudo reference and now they got it. How can you not call it an annexation?

I am not saying that. I am just saying that by recognizing Kosovo Western countries set up a very bad precedent which allows the regions that do not have constitutional right to secede to do so. I am speaking only about legal, formal issues. Legally - Crimea referendum and "decision" to join Russia are as valid as Kosovo's decision to declare independence.

I am not referring to political issues, nor am I saying that justifies Russian actions. I think both was wrong. However, it is highly hypocritical when only 15 years after they allowed the same in Kosovo case (and it was justified only by - we can do it because we say so and because no one can stop us - Germany for example bombed us for the third time in 20th century, all three times because of humanitarian reasons), some Western countries are criticizing Russians. The Russians did make an extra step and annexed the region - and that's how Crimea is different.

[Kuujis]

lol, actually I never hide a mistakes or crimes of Russia, I just wanted to show, that when USA did it before, EU just kept silence and licked the balls, that is double standarts. It means armed illegal revolution in Kiev, independance of Kosovo, bombing of countries, selling weapons to the opposition in Syria, what caused ISIS that's OK and EU keep silence. Illegal revolution in Crimea and Donbass, fuck you russian agressions, burn in hell. I just wanted to show your attitude)

No, what you did is a cheap whataboutism, which works only in the minds of russians like you. Your so called "government" fucks up daily, you do nothing, rejoice in vodka, and take the moral high ground "but others do mistakes too". Well... fuck you, accept your mistakes, then come preaching. Agreeing with oppinion of USA on one matter (e.g. russia being an agressor in this conflict) does not imply that there is a universal buttlicking going on, which is what your "media" keeps implying, far from it.

Also - don't compare apples to oranges, read something else apart your "political philosophical history" morons, who want CCCP back. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/03/24/crimea-kosovo-and-false-moral-equivalency/

BTW - friggin russia thought that Kosovo was illegal, now what that makes russia except moronically hypocritical and unjust? I would be ashamed of my country doing this BS.

Can you imagine ANYTHING like the recent US investigation into its own torture practices where they basically admitted they fucked up happening in russia under putler? IN NO BLOODY WAY,  because mother russia is never wrong, but always stronk, and stronk makes right. THATS how fucked up your country is and you personally by extension for being part of it and going around spouting your watabautisms.

[DonNicko]

(click to show/hide)

No, what you did is a cheap whataboutism, which works only in the minds of russians like you. Your so called "government" fucks up daily, you do nothing, rejoice in vodka, and take the moral high ground "but others do mistakes too". Well... fuck you, accept your mistakes, then come preaching. Agreeing with oppinion of USA on one matter (e.g. russia being an agressor in this conflict) does not imply that there is a universal buttlicking going on, which is what your "media" keeps implying, far from it.

Also - don't compare apples to oranges, read something else apart your "political philosophical history" morons, who want CCCP back. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/03/24/crimea-kosovo-and-false-moral-equivalency/

BTW - friggin russia thought that Kosovo was illegal, now what that makes russia except moronically hypocritical and unjust? I would be ashamed of my country doing this BS.

Can you imagine ANYTHING like the recent US investigation into its own torture practices where they basically admitted they fucked up happening in russia under putler? IN NO BLOODY WAY,  because mother russia is never wrong, but always stronk, and stronk makes right. THATS how fucked up your country is and you personally by extension for being part of it and going around spouting your watabautisms.

Oh common Kuujis again so many words and no effect at once. Did I say something wrong? Are there no double standarts?

[Kuujis]

(click to show/hide)

Oh common Kuujis again so many words and no effect at once. Did I say something wrong? Are there no double standarts?

Poor you living in a shithole country that russia is and having to suffer the double standards. Well - news flash - there are people dying, because you and the so called "government" of your cleptocracy want to argue about double standards and "omg noone likes us we must save russians".

Damn right there are double standards when it comes to Crimea vs Kosovo. First was imaginary bullshit created artificially by state controlled russian media, the other was due to fucking genocide and war crimes. One was a sham, the other was genuine and proper declaration of the will of population. So the double standards here are created by russia.

[DonNicko]

Poor you living in a shithole country that russia is and having to suffer the double standards. Well - news flash - there are people dying, because you and the so called "government" of your cleptocracy want to argue about double standards and "omg noone likes us we must save russians".

Damn right there are double standards when it comes to Crimea vs Kosovo. First was imaginary bullshit created artificially by state controlled russian media, the other was due to fucking genocide and war crimes. One was a sham, the other was genuine and proper declaration of the will of population. So the double standards here are created by russia.

You forgot to say that double standarts about revolution in Kiev are also created by Russia. Also 4500 civilians in Donbass, that were killed by ukranian army is OK. Libya, Syria, Iraq also double standarts made by Russia. Guantanamo... fucking russians. Wiretap of the high-ranking officials, ah that's OK)

[Tibe]

lol, actually I never hide a mistakes or crimes of Russia, I just wanted to show, that when USA did it before, EU just kept silence and licked the balls, that is double standarts. It means armed illegal revolution in Kiev, independance of Kosovo, bombing of countries, selling weapons to the opposition in Syria, what caused ISIS that's OK and EU keep silence. Illegal revolution in Crimea and Donbass, fuck you russian agressions, burn in hell. I just wanted to show your attitude)

We dont actually have any evidence to back any of it you know. All that is an assumption that US is related. And yes, USA did fuck up big time when it comes to Syria, but it was rather wrong calculations and shitty luck, not because they are evil. USA has legitimately given countries actual democracy in the past and saved countries from the worst. It has fucked up some countries aswell, not gonna lie, but compare it to Russia. What country has Russia ever saved? Not even a single tiny one.

Revolution in Kiev might have mainly been just a movement cause people were tired of being Russias bitches. Before the revolution Ukraine was not a country, but a Russian province. Mybe US did have something to do with it, but its not a solid fact.

[Kuujis]

You forgot to say that double standarts about revolution in Kiev are also created by Russia. Also 4500 civilians in Donbass, that were killed by ukranian army is OK. Libya, Syria, Iraq also double standarts made by Russia. Guantanamo... fucking russians. Wiretap of the high-ranking officials, ah that's OK)

And that is relevant to russia fucking things up in Ukraine because...?

You can wiggle all you like, but YOUR country incited the rebels, sent them equipement, fueled and created this conflict. Ukraine defended itselft, it had a right to do it, war is not fair, civilians and soldiers died, whole eastern Ukraine is fucked up. You argue its because Ukraine defended itself. I call this bullshit of russian grade. It is not the fault of the defending party, that it HAD to defend itself in the first place. 

It is russias, and YOUR by extension, fault for creating this conflict and the blood is on YOUR hands ultimately. Hope you feel nice about it.

P.S. You forgot to mention Odessa fire, did your brains get squishy due to overabundance of putlers media bullshit?

[DonNicko]

We dont actually have any evidence to back any of it you know. All that is an assumption that US is related. And yes, USA did fuck up big time when it comes to Syria, but it was rather wrong calculations and shitty luck, not because they are evil. USA has legitimately given countries actual democracy in the past and saved countries from the worst. It has fucked up some countries aswell, not gonna lie, but compare it to Russia. What country has Russia ever saved? Not even a single tiny one.

Revolution in Kiev might have mainly been just a movement cause people were tired of being Russias bitches. Before the revolution Ukraine was not a country, but a Russian province. Mybe US did have something to do with it, but its not a solid fact.

Lol, bad calculations and shitty luck, I would hear this from OBAMA. Asking what country was saved by Russia is the same as asking what country was saved by Estonia. Russia was fucked up in 90s so mush, corruption was raised extremely fast, many of billions dollars went to the USA and EU.

About revolution, then you have to remember that there was sighned a document where all requirements of the people were considered and people on maidan were happy, but after that day there were armed revolution, which was made by right sector, what EU did, fuck that documentr hail new government. Russians are tired of being Russians - nice try)

[Kuujis]

Lol, bad calculations and shitty luck, I would hear this from OBAMA. Asking what country was saved by Russia is the same as asking what country was saved by Estonia. Russia was fucked up in 90s so mush, corruption was raised extremely fast, many of billions dollars went to the USA and EU.

About revolution, then you have to remember that there was sighned a document where all requirements of the people were considered and people on maidan were happy, but after that day there were armed revolution, which was made by right sector, what EU did, fuck that documentr hail new government. Russians are tired of being Russians - nice try)

Ofcourse... poor russians robbed and punished and sad and hurt... so sad... so now somehow this gives them right to fuck up next random neighbor... so they can feel somewhat less a shithole and more stronk neo-empire...

[DonNicko]

And that is relevant to russia fucking things up in Ukraine because...?

You can wiggle all you like, but YOUR country incited the rebels, sent them equipement, fueled and created this conflict. Ukraine defended itselft, it had a right to do it, war is not fair, civilians and soldiers died, whole eastern Ukraine is fucked up. You argue its because Ukraine defended itself. I call this bullshit of russian grade. It is not the fault of the defending party, that it HAD to defend itself in the first place. 

It is russias, and YOUR by extension, fault for creating this conflict and the blood is on YOUR hands ultimately. Hope you feel nice about it.

P.S. You forgot to mention Odessa fire, did your brains get squishy due to overabundance of putlers media bullshit?

Yes I forgot about Odessa, ask civilians in Donbass who they blame Russia or Kiev. Russian troops, equipment. Nobody saw them, but everybody know - it is called propoganda. And you are an example of it. You can't even imagine that Donbass defend itself, just can't.
And if there wouldn't any revolution in Kiev, everything would be OK. Who supported revolution USA and EU. Who send troops to the East, when there were no volunteers from Russia?

[Tibe]

Lol, bad calculations and shitty luck, I would hear this from OBAMA. Asking what country was saved by Russia is the same as asking what country was saved by Estonia. Russia was fucked up in 90s so mush, corruption was raised extremely fast, many of billions dollars went to the USA and EU.

Well it is bad calculations and shitty luck. Really think about it. The US pretty much fucked itself when it comes to Syria. They won nothing, they had nothing to gain to begin with.

And not a same antology. Estonia never pretended to be some bigshot and very relevant country, unlike Russia, which in its attemts to be more relevant chooses to fuck up the countries around it aswell...for I dont know what reason tbh. Really compare here. Look at russias allies. All russias friends are basically some poor countries with extremely corrupt governments. And "corruption was raised extremely fast"? You have always been corrupt. ALWAYS. Eversince Russia stopped having a tzar, you have been nothing but always nonstop corrupt. You dont need USA and EUs involvement. Its in russian peoples blood to be corrupt. You are basically stealing gypsies with your own land.

About revolution, then you have to remember that there was sighned a document where all requirements of the people were considered and people on maidan were happy, but after that day there were armed revolution, which was made by right sector, what EU did, fuck that documentr hail new government. Russians are tired of being Russians - nice try)

Why do you think the people were happy and all requirements were considered? Typical russian imperialist scum: "everyone was happy in our empire, but than EU and USA ruined everything". Clearly the only people that were happy were russians. Not ukrainians.

[Moncho]

Why on earth is this shit still going on?

[DonNicko]

Well it is bad calculations and shitty luck. Really think about it. The US pretty much fucked itself when it comes to Syria. They won nothing, they had nothing to gain to begin with.

And not a same antology. Estonia never pretended to be some bigshot and very relevant country, unlike Russia, which in its attemts to be more relevant chooses to fuck up the countries around it aswell...for I dont know what reason tbh. Really compare here. Look at russias allies. All russias friends are basically some poor countries with extremely corrupt governments. And "corruption was raised extremely fast"? You have always been corrupt. ALWAYS. Eversince Russia stopped having a tzar, you have been nothing but always nonstop corrupt. You dont need USA and EUs involvement. Its in russian peoples blood to be corrupt. You are basically stealing gypsies with your own land.

If USA wouldn't win anything, why they started it then?
Really don't see, how Russia fucks other countries now, but I think sooner or later Russia will become more powerful, if the war will not start. At least this sanctions helped inner production. Maybe it will take many years like in China, but we have enough resources, and USSR helped Vietnam(agressor) to win the war against USA(peacemaker), so maybe not Russia but USSR helped)
About corruption I agree, don't know what to do with it, just changing government won't help anyhow.
Interresting Ukranians mentally the same as russians, maybe now they have more corruption then before, how will EU help them? How will EU change the mentallity?

Why do you think the people were happy and all requirements were considered? Typical russian imperialist scum: "everyone was happy in our empire, but than EU and USA ruined everything". Clearly the only people that were happy were russians. Not ukrainians.

I will remind you that russian side didn't sighned that document and was against it, but Yanikovich sighned it anyway. And people on a Maidan met it with triumph. Read that document first please.

[Vovka]

Why on earth is this shit still going on?

because Russia / America / put your country here / and muslims!