Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

nothing new in that report, they only re-checked the bellingcat research.

What exactly is propaganda in your opinion? even russia officially discussed that video and claimed it was shot elsewhere by claiming there was advertising for a certain car-seller on the poster in the background. But people from Luhansk have located that specific poster and confirmed it is in Luhansk.

http://evilmilker.livejournal.com/4379.html?thread=66587#t66587

Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of a population toward some cause or position. So 1st channel makes population to think that boeing was shot by Russia. What can I say more. That first claim about this video is that this BUK was in the Donetsk moving to Russia. And yes watch the video with the men from that BUK 

[LordBerenger]

Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of a population toward some cause or position. So 1st channel makes population to think that boeing was shot by Russia. What can I say more. That first claim about this video is that this BUK was in the Donetsk moving to Russia. And yes watch the video with the men from that BUK 

Whenever you criticize atleast 1 thing about Russia and their politics your facts becomes legit and can be taken seriously. Till then you're a biased, pro-kremlin propaganda troll

[Molly]

Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of a population toward some cause or position. So 1st channel makes population to think that boeing was shot by Russia. What can I say more. That first claim about this video is that this BUK was in the Donetsk moving to Russia. And yes watch the video with the men from that BUK 

Didn't realize you speak German so well that you actually understand what he's saying. If not, better stop talking out of your arse cuz it makes you look like one in return.

[DonNicko]

Whenever you criticize atleast 1 thing about Russia and their politics your facts becomes legit and can be taken seriously. Till then you're a biased, pro-kremlin propaganda troll

When I did propoganda?

Didn't realize you speak German so well that you actually understand what he's saying. If not, better stop talking out of your arse cuz it makes you look like one in return.

Did I said something wrong, I read prodessional translation, and gave the video. Where I did a mistake?

[Kuujis]

"interview" the former Ukrainian soldiers, who served on the "312" (oh 312 not 301)  BUK, where he explains the transcript "312" and why he carried on the truck XD

Vovka, you are confused a bit. Let me get you back to the slow speed you should be using when thinking. Currently there is a secret witness in russia, who claims there was a Ukrainian ground attack plane, which left airport with 2 AA missiles and returned with none. This "the buk was ukrainian" did not stick to the wall of bullshit that russian media is. Maybe it was not thrown hard enough, maybe there is only so much place for bullshit even there or JUST MAYBE feeding two different bullshits may cause inadvertent effect of people actually asking questions (god forbid!).

Also - try arguing with these guys and their findings, instead of "there is one secret witness" or  "there was a soldier who was interviewed and told something  about something..."
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/01/05/is-this-ukrainian-buk-a-clue-in-the-mh17-investigation-or-a-red-herring/

[Vovka]

  looks like bus driver not pissed in bushes but tried hide here


http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.ru/2015/01/volnovakha.html?spref=fb

[DonNicko]

Crimea - secession or annexation?

[Kuujis]

Crimea - secession or annexation?

Are you daft?

[Mala]

Crimea - secession or annexation?

does it matter anymore?

[DonNicko]

Are you daft?

Ask this the professor Karl-Albrecht Schachtschneider. He said that this was secession. And I asked the question. Do you know the difference between secession and annexation?

[The_Bloody_Nine]

stupid question nicko, and you know the answer. You think it's secession because you listen to EU-hating far right sympathizer of NPD FPÖ and AfD Schachtschneider while 90% of academic historians, juridical, social and political scientists know it was an annexation by it's definition.

[Umbra]

Well they did tehnically secede by referendum, and the short timeframe of joining the russian federation one could argue it was annexation. Was it legal by Ukranian constitutional law and international law? Not really, there isnt a right to secede, but self determination happens anyway. You could argue that the Croatian independence referndum was also illegal but Croatia is an EU member today. Neither side is 100% right, its all a matter of perspective. My personal opinion is that its Ukranian but thats only because i dislike the Russian goverment.

[Tibe]

Crimea - secession or annexation?

Its kinda stupid to hear people say "it was technically ours". Half of Europe was under the USSR. There is a lot of russians, its not very hard for them to migrate to another country in masses, be the majority in some province, have some stupid "voting", be annexed and than use the words "it has always been ours". Ofcourse the people of Crimea chose to join Russia, cause majority of the people there were infact russians, but the land was still Ukraines and considering this horrible tasteless and factually incorrect propaganda:

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

its really no suprise the people got scared. Borders exsist, despite Russias understanding that the only borders that matter are China, USAs and theirs.

[Corwin]

You could argue that the Croatian independence referndum was also illegal but Croatia is an EU member today.

No, you can't. Croatia had every right to leave Yugoslavia, in accordance with Yugoslav Constitution from 1974. Every Yugoslav Republic had the same right: Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Serbia and Monteblack in spanish.

Kosovo's secession from Serbia was illegal, because Yugoslav Constitution never allowed for such possibility for Kosovo which was one of the provinces of Serbia. And this is exactly the argument the Russian's are using (and rightly so) - if EU and USA allowed something for Kosovo and set such precedent, why would it be impossible for Crimea? Most of EU countries (except for few dealing with secessionist movements themselves - like Spain for example) recognized Kosovo's independence, and USA did it in the first place. Shit, NATO led by US even made it possible in the first place by bombing Serbia & MNE into submission and making Serbia withdraw all the troops from Kosovo.

Also, one could argue that Crimea's referendum formally took place, no matter how ridiculous it was, while such referendum never took place in Kosovo. Not to say that huge majority of Kosovo's population wouldn't support independence, but formally there never was any kind of vote, they just said one day Kosovo is now independent and USA and bunch of countries immediately recognized it as an independent state.

[DonNicko]

stupid question nicko, and you know the answer. You think it's secession because you listen to EU-hating far right sympathizer of NPD FPÖ and AfD Schachtschneider while 90% of academic historians, juridical, social and political scientists know it was an annexation by it's definition.

No I didn't say anything about was it secession or annexation. I asked a question to discuss. Technically how it was according to defenitions of that words it is more secession than annexation. About 90%  It is just geopolitical game between USA and Russia and EU acts just like a puppet of USA. Anyways sooner or later I think there will be a nuclear war if things will go the same.