Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Leshma]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care anymore?

Putin wins.

[Thomek]

German newspaper FAZ on September 21, 2013 (when Ukraine was still fine): "The NATO thinks about its future after the pullout from Afghanistan. [...] For some time, the NATO sees itself confronted with a question, which is anything but irrelevant for a military alliance: What to do without war? At the end of the next year the alliance wants the combat troops to be pulled out from Afghanistan, the process is in full swing. If there won't be another large scale operation, and that's probable because of the combat fatigue in the West, the alliance won't be in an armed conflict for the first time for more than 10 years. Especially military officers are concerned about this. "How to retain the operational capability when the troops are back in the barracks?", leading officers wonder. A first, to outsiders possibly suprising answer is: By fighting a battle against Russia."

This is what the FAZ wrote on September 21, 2013 about discussions of high ranked military officers of the NATO.

Funny, because this is not a NATO war, nor will it become one. It is a war where Russia fucks over Ukraine for "misbehaving". It's really desperate when you resort to some western newspaper from some random journalist when there's an actual war going on, with one aggressor state. Russia is the reason and the cause for this war, and all the blood is on its hands. (Putins..)

[Molly]

Good vs Evil is so much more entertaining, I understand it becomes less appealing to the masses when people become aware that its far more complex and ambiguous.

Get away from common thought process and come back and approach the situation with the objective to know whats really happening, it will become interesting again...

You're so thick sometimes, it's hard to believe.
It had never been Good vs Evil for me but whatever you like to believe, dude... Just

[Anuran]

Russia is the reason and the cause for this war, and all the blood is on its hands. (Putins..)

 

[DonNicko]

Russia is the reason and the cause for this war, and all the blood is on its hands. (Putins..)

[Tibe]

German newspaper FAZ on September 21, 2013 (when Ukraine was still fine): "The NATO thinks about its future after the pullout from Afghanistan. [...] For some time, the NATO sees itself confronted with a question, which is anything but irrelevant for a military alliance: What to do without war? At the end of the next year the alliance wants the combat troops to be pulled out from Afghanistan, the process is in full swing. If there won't be another large scale operation, and that's probable because of the combat fatigue in the West, the alliance won't be in an armed conflict for the first time for more than 10 years. Especially military officers are concerned about this. "How to retain the operational capability when the troops are back in the barracks?", leading officers wonder. A first, to outsiders possibly suprising answer is: By fighting a battle against Russia."

This is what the FAZ wrote on September 21, 2013 about discussions of high ranked military officers of the NATO.


Edit: The author of this article, Nikolas Busse, became NATO correspondent and the deputy head of FAZ's foreign affairs after he strongly supported the US in the Iraq war in 2003. Got this info from another interview with Udo Ulfkotte.

Even a 7 year old would quess something like this. If NATO really wants to send troops somewhere it can easly do so. Theres loads of countries nobody has barely heard of and doesnt give a shit about it could invade and loads of conflicts happening all the time everywhere it could interfere. There is no battle with Russia, nor is there ever going to be one. Worst case scenario, more playing chicken with nukes. But not actual confrontation between the 2.

"NATO doesnt want its troops to stay in barrackses so they want to start a war with Russia." What a load of shit. It physically hurts me that grown people say something so fully retarded with dead seriusness. NATO/Russia war is not some random thing anyone on the planet Earth could just sweep under the rug and forget. It would be the endwar. Lots of good would that troopexperience do when we are all dead. NATO would have to be officially governed by suicidal retards(if they were the agressors in that case), for something like that to happen.

[Anuran]

Even a 7 year old would quess something like this. If NATO really wants to send troops somewhere it can easly do so. Theres loads of countries nobody has barely heard of and doesnt give a shit about it could invade and loads of conflicts happening all the time everywhere it could interfere. There is no battle with Russia, nor is there ever going to be one. Worst case scenario, more playing chicken with nukes. But not actual confrontation between the 2.

"NATO doesnt want its troops to stay in barrackses so they want to start a war with Russia." What a load of shit. It physically hurts me that grown people say something so fully retarded with dead seriusness. NATO/Russia war is not some random thing anyone on the planet Earth could just sweep under the rug and forget. It would be the endwar. Lots of good would that troopexperience do when we are all dead. NATO would have to be officially governed by suicidal retards(if they were the agressors in that case), for something like that to happen.

Well, I still think that the NATO leaders and other highly responsible persons want a war against Russia. And as long as the West continues escalating the situation, I will not deviate from that opinion. Fortunately, people aren't that stupid so the top-tier people can't go ahead with their war propaganda properly (MH17).

[Anuran]

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It's just a horrible progress!

[Tibe]

Well, I still think that the NATO leaders and other highly responsible persons want a war against Russia. And as long as the West continues escalating the situation, I will not deviate from that opinion. Fortunately, people aren't that stupid so the top-tier people can't go ahead with their war propaganda properly (MH17).

Escalating how? Who besides Russia ever claimed that Ukraine was entirely 100% theirs to do with as they please? Cause this is Russias main statement: "its ours, fuck off!". The only way West escalated the situation is by proving it to be a false statement. Clearly Ukraine wants to be a country, cause before it was not a country. It was an extension of Russia. Kinda like Belarus is not a country, but more in the line of a province. And before you act like idiot Tovi and say "EU is same", its definately not. And how is the MH17 thing still a subject? The separatists unknowingly pretty much admitted shooting down the plane via social networks. Honestly theres little debate about that one imo.

[Kafein]

In mother Russia truth believes you.

[Xant]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care anymore?

Nope, I think most people don't care anymore. It's exactly what Putin wanted to achieve, and it's exactly why a slow "low frequency" war is so good in modern times. If you just slowly take over territory, nobody will really care after a while, all the outrage will be spent. The trick is to make the initial outrage be small enough to prevent intervention.

[Christo]

Fucker knows how the BadBoy system worked too much

[Anuran]

And how is the MH17 thing still a subject? The separatists unknowingly pretty much admitted shooting down the plane via social networks.

Okay, then it's clearly 100% evil Putin's fault! Now we can invade Russia with Ukrainian Sukhoi Su-25 (if they still got some ammo left in their guns) and Ukrainian BUK anti-air missiles on the border of the planeless rebels! Especially Germans are happy about a war against Russia.

What I actually meant is that the MH17 case was something like the Cuba Crisis 1962. War could have easily been declared due to that false flag operation (not applying to the Cuba Crisis!) and due to the overwhelming proof coming from US side. But the case was pulled back after a short time of anti-Russian agitation. Why? Because most people aren't that stupid anymore. Don't forget about the snipers on Maidan on February 20, Odessa on May 2, the Ukrainian airstrike on Lugansk on June 2, the voting in eastern Ukraine on August 11 - when Putin vainly tried to convince the pro-Russian rebels to reschedule the voting, and don't forget the made up Russian military vehicles on August 14/15. Oh and all these 30 Russian invasions in Ukraine... All these things were shortly used for anti-Russian agitation but what happened after this short time and what's up with it now? Just silence. Instead there are more and more sanctions imposed.

And before you act like idiot Tovi and say "EU is same", its definately not.

"...and, you know, fuck the EU."

[Thomek]

You clearly live in an alternate reality and are not able to think for yourself Anuran.

Regardless what any media says. All facts and actions point to rebels shooting down MH17. Not that it matters that much, it was most surely an accidental shootdown. (Lol that you believe in the SU-25 btw. It is an aircraft EXTREMELY unsuitable for shooting down passenger planes. It would take planning and an excellent pilot to squeeze the plane to that altitude and do an intercept, something wildly theoretical. Something SU-25 pilots never train in, because that's not their purpose.. )

Please explain if you are trolling, just retarded, or actually believe all the crap RF state controlled media throws at you.

nvm.. Actually I'm more interested in why you feel your beliefs must be true. Understanding the psychology, actually the mass brainwashing going on is more interesting.

What buttons are RF media pushing in you?

Because.. TBH, I don't really care about Ukraine or Russia, other than common human compassion. What shocks me however is how much support Putin gains, and I wonder how he does it.

[Christo]

SU-25 is a ground attack plane, right?

A lot of damn things russian are SU, hard to keep it in mind sometimes.

Just going with my gut here, tempting to be wiki-smart but iirc that's what it was made for.

Edit: Okay, going to cheat a bit, let's see.

The SU-25 has a service ceiling of 7000 meters.

MH17 was flying at above 10.000 meters.

It has no afterburner, no A2A missiles because of the role it's used in generally, it can be fitted with some close range but those aren't effective at intercepting another plane. Hell the entire airframe isn't made for interception.

So tell me how the hell did the SU-25 close in the distance to take pin point accurate shots with the 30mm cannon?