Christo and Kujjis try to desperatly defend their positions. But we all know the truth now about Ukraine. The true Maidan revolution is defended by Novorossia, not by fascists and oligarchs of the West.
Begging acceptance by the others, assuming being RIGHT, being part of "WE ALL"... so touching. I had a tear in me left eye... due to an onion.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/understanding-the-crisis-in-ukraine,35435/http://www.theonion.com/articles/ukrainianrussian-tensions-dividing-us-citizens-alo,35428/@Anuran - so some political actress has an oppinion and supports one guy over the other. This is proof of... what exactly? That US incited the rebellion in the east, sham referendum in Crimea?
Well I don't watch russian TV, just some channels a little, and what I watched was like "according to the statement of smb and so on". I didn't see that russian TV blamed president Poroshenko, most of blames were to right sector like 80% of video.
Also I don't watch western TV, just saw some programs with fake statements. Not many. And as I said a lot of fake information on the USA briefings made by Psaki and her assistent. Also Rasmussen.
About Crimea in the place of Poroshenko I would make a new referendum with foreign watchers, but I think it won't help anyhow. People will choose Russia again, maybe less %. It will work if Ukraine will reach EU economics and Crimea people will see that it is much better to live in Ukraine. But it will take many years, because I think that EU will just use ukranian market like new consumers. So all domestic production will die later.
You watch one news "a little". Those same news, watched NOT a little 6 months (roughly) ago started calling Ukrainian government naztees, junta and made russian-news watching sheeple population of Crimea + eastern Ukraine (well, at least sufficient part of it) so afraid, that they were willing to accept russian ex-intelligence officers as their "freedom movement leaders". Or well, they in fact had not much choice, since those punks just grabbet all the weapons they could find and then were given some more by russians. So thats one "news" source you have.
And you dont;t watch western TV, just the select mistakes that your "little" watched news choose to share I guess.
Thusly - you choose to compare both medias and judge their reliability... riiiiiiiiiight. I rest my case here.
As to regions with local majority of big neighboring country ... lets call them "friends" suddenly voting for their independence is not taken seriously. The reasons basically sum up to NOT repeating mistakes, which were made in the wake of WW2.
DonNicko said Russia wanted to be in the discussion. Russia could have been in the game and compromises could have been made between everyone involved. You can do it the easy way, or the hard way. "The hard way it is? Ok then." This could sum up the whole Ukraine affair.
At the time of the discussions it was more about economics than politics, but as Maidan showed, the question of the economical agreements between Ukraine and Europe/Russia became a political/ethical choice.
Yanukovitch was corrupted, but during his mandate he kept a certain balance between the two bipolar forces of this world: west and east. Now it has been completely replaced in favor of one side through civilian unrest, and the country itself is paying the brutality of the change, whether its totally Russia's fault or totally Ukraine's fault or both. As in all revolutions, there is hard times ahead and a adaptation phase where many things will be lost.
You know, if russia AT LEAST PRETENDED to act in the interests of Ukraine, or did not shat left and right on international agreements - it might be worth talking with on the level you expect/propose. However - there is one sad thing, that only a VERY small minority in the west are willing to admit - russia will talk, only if it has a SIGNIFICANT upper hand and can raep you left and right OR when it has not much other choice. In the first case - not talking is sometimes better, in the second choice... well, it happened with China recently, what with all the gas deals (if you can call this a "deal", when even the price was not agreed upon
) Ukraine is NOT in this situation and it chose to talk with the EU. Why should it invite russia?
I understand your reasoning, i.e. how butthurt russia basically means, that its neighbors have to bee butthurt too, but I do not support this attitude of russians and I think people that DO support this behavior are basically one step from supporting rape, because object of attraction married someone else.
Supporting Maidan was exactly the same as supporting Eastern unrest at its civilian desobeissance phase. The comparison stop here, you are right.
So you choose an artificial period of time, during which one side was having a mixed bunch of oppinions, and the other side began concentrated anti-maidan attacks in the media, to which Ukrainian people were VERY succeptible and russian owners of their media KNEW it. We could argue about it being "the same", but lets agree to disagree on this, CBA to continue
I would still look at the big picture, not an isolated one...
And in that "bigger picture" I can already see all the Ukrainian forces with bunch of NATO armament supplies, mecenaries and special forces winning and pushing back the almost lost battle. True story. NOT.
Support for Maidan was by words, promise of economic benefits in the future and an idea how to move away from corrupt past to much less corrupt western way of living.
Support for eastern Ukraine civil war was shameless brainwashing with kid cruficitions and other artificial stories, coupled with training, arming and commanding local "rebels", which according to pre-war pools were not even in the majority in the said regions. Plus - annexation of Crimea, which everyone treats as an invisible elephant in the room (GOD I started to like this comparison
)
Except for the obviously rigged results, the annexation of Crimea was so perfectly done that its going to be hard convincing everyone that "it needs to be re-taken".
Even if there was a new real referendum now, I doubt the population would say no to being a part of the Russian Federation, thanks to the current propaganda from both sides, which works to reinforce nationalism and territorialism.
So now its only a case of does Ukraine really want that land, and can? There's as much historical/nationalistic reasons that both Russia and Ukraine wants it... That would be a bloody mess.
On this - I can only concede. The best Ukraine can do is clean its shit up (its been done before, e.g. Polant, Baltic states), and then see how all those "we live well" russians and belorussians CLOG shopping malls in towns near borders. Man... fucking PUBLIC ANOUNCEMENTS in Vilnius shopping malls are given in 3 languages: russia, Belorussian and Lithuanian. Why the fuck do they drive in their shiney cars 500km for shopping - I have no clue
But it feels good. And this is what Ukraine has to do, if it wants Crimea back. Key is that Crimea wanted that and that russias internal support for bullshit creating government was low. Both of these ARE possible, given 20-30 years window.
Not much to say on 4., except on the "Western press, the proper, serious one - they doublecheck and report what they saw in a reasonably conservative manner, not what they read, imagined, created or simply were paid to report" which is a very nice but too crude to be believed angelisation of a corrupted system which is the global medias of today.
I'm not angelising... There is so much sut and bullshit there, that one has to be an idiot to believe it wholeheartedly, but key is that if you have 3 or 5 conflicting reports about the same event - you CAN more or less figure out truth. Plus - I can find you BUNCH of retractions, apologies or even court sentences which are results of actions taken to remedy the mistakes of wester press (given, that we are not talking about fox news and similar shit), but find me ANYTHING like that for the bogus stories of RT, or LifeNews, or any other mainstream russian news outlet (removing a story does not count
). Hell - national news-agency TASS is using some CREATED german professors to create artificial support for russia, which is then in turn appreciated by russian consumers, who get the hope "at least SOME in the west understand us"... well... its NOT true. Umomu rossyu neponiat - as one of their commercials say (roughly - "you can't understand russia with intelligence/mind")
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