Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kuujis]

Because its TOTALLY logical for Ukraine troops to fire on... what exactly? Too much ammo maybe?

And Butan - you have a strange sense of humor laughing at the death of an innocent bystander, who WAS there to help, instead of usual russian BS.

Meanwhile evil silly russia spins its spirderwebs... and gets cought in them itself. Any russian consumers saw an apology/retraction in your press or TV regarding this?
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-unspun-osce-probe-murders-gang-rapes-mass-graves/26615896.html

[Butan]

And Butan - you have a strange sense of humor laughing at the death of an innocent bystander, who WAS there to help, instead of usual russian BS.

Considering its an innocent person who is one of the few humanitarian help allowed to go into Ukraine east and obviously killed by Ukrainian bombardment who still use the same excuse of "rebels did it" self-bombing (someone think its possible to die in 100% rebel controlled Donetsk from rebel controlled artillery?), I find it amusing.

[Christo]

Because rebels and vodka isn't a thing.

[Kuujis]

Considering its an innocent person who is one of the few humanitarian help allowed to go into Ukraine east and obviously killed by Ukrainian bombardment who still use the same excuse of "rebels did it" self-bombing (someone think its possible to die in 100% rebel controlled Donetsk from rebel controlled artillery?), I find it amusing.

Lets play this shit of a game "no proof - no foul" on both sides. You have any proof? Anyone else? Indirect ones can be cooked up for both sides and they are as much "amusing" IF one is firing artillery at civilian areas - one should have a reasonable cause, no? What would that be for Ukrainians?

About the previous shells falling near a school, a nice analysis, with a lot of details: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-227-fighting-rages-on-around-donetsk-airport/#4493 If this IS true - then morons are indeed shelling "their own side" from time to time.

[Butan]

Thats the center of the HQ city of one of the two rebel armies we talking, not indirect frontline proximity miscalculation.

Thats about as obvious as russian green men in Crimea and pro-Rus rebels claiming they shot a plane at the same time MH17 got hit.

[Thomek]

I don't believe any side here is any "better" as in the methods they use on the battlefield. There are very little proof either way.

Of course RF media works hard with demonizing UKR forces like they have since the beginning. I haven't noted much demonizing of RF methods going on in western media, but they are also biased in the sense that they don't (and probably it is impossible for them) show both sides in a balanced way.

I think a healthy assumption is to say the actual used battlefield methods are equal. Both of them use artillery, insurgency might be hiding among civilians (Like we saw in a video in this thread), and UKR forces will retaliate fire, like any army in the world.

I don't even believe Russian or Ukraine forces to be "evil" or "bad". They are all just doing their job.

Now, the politicians that have created this situation however are guilty as fuck. It is a completely unnecessary war between brother people, with near zero ethnic, cultural or economical grounds. It is a symbolic war for internal and geo-political power.

Ask yourself, Butan and Nicko:

Who created this war?

Who stole a part of a sovereign country?
(Killing at the same time any chance for negotiations, when Ukraine tried to deal with it peacefully?)

In what country were the rebel leaders intelligence officers?

Who supported and defended the rebellion?

Who created the rebellion?

.....

The answer Nicko, will tell you where your tears for civilian casualties come from.

[Leshma]

Who created this war?

USA

Who stole a part of a sovereign country?
(Killing at the same time any chance for negotiations, when Ukraine tried to deal with it peacefully?)

Russia

In what country were the rebel leaders intelligence officers?

Russia

Who supported and defended the rebellion?

Russia

Who created the rebellion?

Russia

.....

The answer Nicko, will tell you where your tears for civilian casualties come from.

[Leshma]

The brain drain is real

Call bullshit on that concept. There is no such thing. People leave, but they get replaced.

If there was such a thing, USSR astronauts would never visit space because 30 years before Stalin killed and alienated most of intelligent and educated people. When country is weak, it suffers from lack of capable people. Strong country does not.

Real question is, how weak/strong is Russian Federation?

[DonNicko]

Well I can almost agree with Leshma but

Who created this war?
Ukranian opposition of previous powers by the help of
- ambassadors of the USA, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark;
- the Assistant US Secretary of State - Victoria Nuland;
- the American senators - Chris Murphy and John McCain;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Germany - Guido Westerwelle;
- the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Holland - Frans Timmermans;
- the High Representative of the European Union for foreign affairs and a security policy - Catherine Ashton;
- the former president of Georgia - Mikheil Saakashvili;
- the europarliamentarian - Jacek Protasiewicz;
- Minister of Foreign Affairs LiNOS Linkyavichyus and speaker of the Seimas of Lithuania Loreta Grauzhinene;
- the former prime minister of Poland - Jaroslaw Kaczynski;
- senator of the Czech Republic - Yaromir Shtetina

Who stole a part of a sovereign country?
(Killing at the same time any chance for negotiations, when Ukraine tried to deal with it peacefully?)
Russia stole, no negotiations from Kiev

In what country were the rebel leaders intelligence officers?
Well I think in Russia

Who supported and defended the rebellion?
Rebels themselves with support of Russia

Who created the rebellion?
Themselves, Russia instantly started to help, majority of the rebels are russian ukranians

[DonNicko]

About the previous shells falling near a school, a nice analysis, with a lot of details: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-227-fighting-rages-on-around-donetsk-airport/#4493 If this IS true - then morons are indeed shelling "their own side" from time to time.

well nothing about a school, about busstop this part of a rocket can be usefull to analyse who owns it. And this part seems sticks in the ground after huge explotion there, so after explotion it can stick everywhere in every direction, OSCE is not educated in that questions as I know. So need better investigation. Another video on that page is just a manipulation, so I can say that this site is not clear to believe.

President of Belorusia Lukashenko will not accept Novorussia and he is for united Ukraine
Interview of him
"But, but, when you reproach, and you have basis on this, Russia, you don't forget and about other global players  in international policy which roughly violated these laws in the world. And it began norm — to bring down a military strike on some of the countries, to destroy this country and to hang up the president. Same not Russia did. So was in Iraq, so was in Libya, so was in other states. If didn't kill the head of state, brought to a serious condition as it in Egypt occurred. That is the world became stupid, the world went crazy … And here in this context I am ready to consider and events in Ukraine, and behavior of the main players and powers that be
Therefore for a long time norms of international law are neglected. The one who is stronger is right … Same so. The United Nations was destroyed in general, it is debating club which gathers, and solves nothing, on what doesn't influence. It is abnormal. And other international organizations also don't fulfill the functional and authorized duties. And this chaos which overflowed the planet today, violations of the international standards — not Russia was the initiator of it. It is too the truth, from it you won't get to anywhere"

[Butan]

Who created this war?

Ukrainians


Who stole annexed a part of a sovereign country?
(Killing at the same time any chance for negotiations , when Ukraine tried to deal with it peacefully?) demonisation/angelisation

Russia


In what country were the rebel leaders intelligence officers?

More than one


Who supported and defended the rebellion?

pro-Russians and Russia


Who created the rebellion?

Ukrainians

The answer Nicko(why only him, I'm jelly) will tell you where your tears for civilian casualties come from.

Answer is: pro-Russians, Russia, pro-Ukrainians and Ukraine.

Tell us your answers now 

[Christo]

Ukrainians created the war? Ahahaha seriously.

[Leshma]

Yeah, that's a bit stupid thing to say. People don't like to fight a war on their own territory.

[Butan]

Yeh, never happened in whole history. I retract my statement.

(click to show/hide)

Not.

[Anuran]