Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Xant]

The more the merrier.

[Kuujis]

Kuujis did you see official numbers of voters? I think no
There were 1 month for both propoganda just there wasn't any movements from Kiev. So how will you call that sittuation that most of the crimenians wanted to be separate from Kiev and with help of foreign country they did it. So you think if people are propoganded then they must be killed? First of all there were both propoganda availiable for East Ukraine, why they chose russian one ask them. And I want to know what do you think about 3500 dead civilians and 48 dead people in Odessa?

The original number of voters INCLUDING the100k EXTRA inhabitants of Sevastopol or the original inhabitants? Just so we are clear 

Mm.... 1 month at the point of a gun. How nice of the occupiers...   

And as I already said - assaulting Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, be it via propaganda filled lying media or via a gun is the same: aggression. Ukraine was in internal turmoil, could not defend itselft, russia, who used that and raped it as hard as it could. Thats how I call it. How do yo?

Re propaganda in the east and the choices - yeah... interesting question... what do I think about suddenly appearing well armed and trained groups, who occupy government buildings, then transferring them to locals and act all "we are local freeing you from imaginary naztees in Kiev"... The locals, who according to the pools were a minority, "chose" to created these independentsattelite wannabe-states of russia. Then those minorities get support from russia via propaganda, supplies, eventually - russian army. The sham they tried to call a "referendum" was so funny, that even putler did not approve of its results. When offered to negotiate - they refused and then a normal reaction to armed gangs happened, called ATO. What do I think about those... I think, that its better, when countries stick to their borders and don't cause civil war in their neighboring countries. Thats what I think. russia, putler and spiderpig-sheeps do not think so. They only talk and play whatabautism instead of cleaning up their bullshit. Or did you mean those russian soldiers sent to Ukraine "dobrovolnoprinudytilno" on vacations with all them tanks and shit? EXTRA ugly shit being the BUK misile and the whole MH17 story, which in spiderpig-sheeps oppinion is not a fault of putler at all... (the problem is - there is NO other sources they could aquire BUK and when you give a kid a gun - you are responsible for what the kid does with it).

And I want to know what do you think about 3500 dead civilians and 48 dead people in Odessa? What do I think... I'm heartily sorry for those people. I think russia could have chosen NOT to cause the civil unrest, NOT to spout lies on its state controlled media and NOT incite civil war, but it chose otherwise. Why? Because NOT having external enemies means internal problems become that much more noticeable and government might not have survived that. What else do you want me to "think" about those people? Or you want me to start believing conspiracy theories about the whole Odessa tragedy maybe?

Oh, and a nice QnA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uex8Y9MsFc

[DonNicko]

And as I already said - assaulting Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, be it via propaganda filled lying media or via a gun is the same: aggression.

Am I right if USA which support excitements in Hong Kong via media is agression from USA?

And I want to know what do you think about 3500 dead civilians and 48 dead people in Odessa? What do I think... I'm heartily sorry for those people. I think russia could have chosen NOT to cause the civil unrest, NOT to spout lies on its state controlled media and NOT incite civil war, but it chose otherwise. Why? Because NOT having external enemies means internal problems become that much more noticeable and government might not have survived that. What else do you want me to "think" about those people? Or you want me to start believing conspiracy theories about the whole Odessa tragedy maybe?

What internal problems do you speak about? In Odessa nobody were caught and put in jail, does it say something to you? I think you can't understand one thing that not minority on the East but majority is against Kiev, even they are propoganded, in my opinion that was a crime to begin ATO which become civil war. They don't fight against RF they fight against east ukranians even they are propoganded. I think there are some special generals who teach them tactics and strategy, but most of them are ukranians and starting the war when it can be solved politically is a fault. East didn't start to shoot first, Kiev did it.

[DonNicko]

When offered to negotiate - they refused and then a normal reaction to armed gangs happened, called ATO. What do I think about those... I think, that its better, when countries stick to their borders and don't cause civil war in their neighboring countries. Thats what I think. russia, putler and spiderpig-sheeps do not think so. They only talk and play whatabautism instead of cleaning up their bullshit. Or did you mean those russian soldiers sent to Ukraine "dobrovolnoprinudytilno" on vacations with all them tanks and shit? EXTRA ugly shit being the BUK misile and the whole MH17 story, which in spiderpig-sheeps oppinion is not a fault of putler at all... (the problem is - there is NO other sources they could aquire BUK and when you give a kid a gun - you are responsible for what the kid does with it).

Nice negotiations - give up we will put some of you in jail, no more negotiations. and you call it negotiations? Tanks and some others shit as you say, no exact proof for so long time, even USA started to say that they don't have it. About BUKs three ukranian BUK were at the crash even on the oficial site of Ukraine there is a video, lol but Kiev claimed that there wasn't any. Once Ukraine destroyed a plane in 2001 from BUK system. You think Russia needed to destroy that airplane? lol How west immidiately chose who destroyed that plane without any investigation. Why?

[serr]

East

East

East

Please, either replace every "East" in your text with "Donbas" or think if what you are posting does make sense or not.

Not going to read full conversation, it's too long, but some things like that just draw attention.

Oh, and another such thing..

Once Ukraine destroyed a plane in 2001 from BUK system.

Unless you can prove it... Ukraine didn't.

[Molly]

Am I right if USA which support excitements in Hong Kong via media is agression from USA?
[...]

Proof or gtfo.

[DonNicko]

Oh, and another such thing..Unless you can prove it... Ukraine didn't.

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Официальный Киев признал выводы МАК, и с 2003 по 2005 годы выплатил почти 16 миллионов долларов компенсации родственникам жертв. Позже возмещения убытков потребовала и авиакомпания "Сибирь", однако здесь украинская сторона внезапно заартачилась. К примеру, в 2008 году министерство обороны Украины заказало дополнительную экспертизу обстоятельств катастрофы в Киевском научно-исследовательском институте судебной экспертизы и Харьковском институте ВВС, внезапно усомнившись в ранее признанных выводах МАК. Теперь украинские эксперты утверждают, что ракета разорвалась на расстоянии около 800 метров от самолета и, следовательно, не могла нанести ему серьезные повреждения. Кроме того, украинские военные упирают на тот факт, что самолет летел по "своевременно не заявленному маршруту", и потому "не прошел предупреждения во всех пунктах наблюдения радиотехнических войск Российской Федерации и Вооруженных сил Украины", и к тому же Ту-154 не подавал сигнал "Я свой". 

[DonNicko]

Proof or gtfo.

as you wish

[serr]

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Там очень мутная ситуация с этими признаниями. Если почитать тексты, это скорей "не-отрицания". Кроме этих "не-отрицаний" по сути доказательств того что самолет сбила украинская ракета и не было(или я ошибаюсь?). А вот с Сибирью ситуация интересная. То что украинские суды отклонили её иски - ладно, можно назвать заинтересованностью, да и действительно судебной системе Украины доверять не стоит, но вот почему Сибирь не обратилась в международные суды, получив такую возможность? В случае если все так очевидно - никаких проблем быть не должно было бы.

Ну и отвечу своей копипастой, не менее и не более правдоподобной чем твоя)
"По законам радиолокации траектория подхода ракеты к самолету не могла быть такой, как представляет российская сторона. Было невозможно даже навести ракету на этот самолет, потому что цель, на которую наводилась ракета, и Ту-154 на локаторах выглядели совершенно по-разному, спутать их было просто невозможно. Пуск ракеты был произведен в сторону учебной цели, перенаправиться в другую сторону она не могла",— пояснил "Ъ" адвокат Минобороны Андрей Козлов. Он добавил, что украинские эксперты допускают, что в Ту-154 сработало самодельное взрывное устройство, заложенное между внешней и внутренней обшивкой самолета. "Версия теракта не была опровергнута российской стороной",— резюмировал адвокат.

[DonNicko]

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Да конечно сто процентов никто не может утверждать, мне просто интересно как запад быстро обвинил Россию во всем, а ты что думаешь по поводу того что там было три украинских Бука?

[serr]

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Откуда инфа про три украинских бука? Буки-то наши там были наверняка неподалеку, но откуда информация именно про три? Вообще с боингом ситуация странная. Очень похожа на обстрел Луганской ОГА в июне, в том плане что куча неправдоподобных версий, одна абсурдней другой, и ни одной которая могла бы логически объяснить произошедшее. Я очень не люблю конспирологию и не верю ни в то что наши военные думали что сбивают Путина, ни в то что россияне решили сбить российский самолет чтобы оправдать ввод войск. Скорей всего в обоих случаях виноват человеческих фактор - ошибка пилота, обстрелявшего нурсами ОГА и ошибка какого-то сепаратиста управляющего буком - по причине территории где упал боинг и множества косвенных фактов. 

[DonNicko]

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Вот видео официальных служб России

И вот Шарий что показал

Просто интересно зачем там нужны были буки если не было никакой авиации у сепаратистов, но я не отрицаю что сепаратисты могли сбить, просто как и почему, как не отрицаю что и украинские войска могли сбить

[serr]

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Извини, но видео вашего минобороны обсуждать вообще смысла не имеет после того как они назвали Красноармейском то что Красноармейском не является. Непроверенная информация - еще ладно, но прямая и наглая ложь - слишком. Их версия об украинском штурмовике который поднимается на высоту, на которой вообще-то не летает для того чтобы сбить пассажирский самолет немногим лучше. Если про три украинских бука сказано там - скажи плиз точное время в видео, пересматривать не хочется, но если я не ошибаюсь одно или два из названных ими мест расположения буков на тот момент контроллировались сепаратистами.

По Шарию.. да, бук, не больше, не меньше. Было бы странно если бы его нигде не было.

[DonNicko]

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Ага с Красноармейском наш минобороны пролетел, но СНБО пролетел быстрее назвав это место луганским недалеко от границы, однако по поводу буков не помню место это надо все смотреть, долго блин, там просто рассекретили спутниковые снимки и другие вещи

[Kuujis]

as you wish

I'm sorry, this is proof of what? That US is pro-democracy?

And why the hell should we care OR discuss what US said, when what you should be asking yourself - why the fuck the government you support should lie, trick and cook up stories about a friendly slav nation? OFC these stirr up radicals in russia, some of which even choose to go fight abroad. OFC these shit-stories destabilize and antagonize the Ukrainian population, which already has a lot of problems internally.

Nice negotiations - give up we will put some of you in jail, no more negotiations. and you call it negotiations? Tanks and some others shit as you say, no exact proof for so long time, even USA started to say that they don't have it. About BUKs three ukranian BUK were at the crash even on the oficial site of Ukraine there is a video, lol but Kiev claimed that there wasn't any. Once Ukraine destroyed a plane in 2001 from BUK system. You think Russia needed to destroy that airplane? lol How west immidiately chose who destroyed that plane without any investigation. Why?

I'm sorry, how would you suggest to handle random groups of armed men in russia who are led by citizens of china with ties to china special forces/intelligence agencies and who are claiming, that they will create a new state of "randomnia" in some oil rich Siberia, near the border with china?
You will forgive me for being ignorant, but seeing Ukrainian BUK's behind enemy lines is a bullshit of "only in putlers russia" (c) proportions. Open your fucking eyes, instead of trusting shit putlers media feeds you.

What internal problems do you speak about? In Odessa nobody were caught and put in jail, does it say something to you? I think you can't understand one thing that not minority on the East but majority is against Kiev, even they are propoganded, in my opinion that was a crime to begin ATO which become civil war. They don't fight against RF they fight against east ukranians even they are propoganded. I think there are some special generals who teach them tactics and strategy, but most of them are ukranians and starting the war when it can be solved politically is a fault. East didn't start to shoot first, Kiev did it.

Either you point me to at least REMOTELY credible sources citing the "majority want to join russia" or gtfo. Do you know many countries, where "we do not agree with our government" = "we will occupy buildings and declare a new wanabe-states because russia will help us"?

Ukraine already tried NOT fighting, this brought about russia annexing Crimea. Now you somehow feel, that bending over harded for the rapist that russia has become is the logical and right thing to do? Really? Apeasing a bully that russia is DID NO WORK already, why should ANYONE trust that russia will stop, unless it meets force? The problem is that Ukraine hoped that russia will at least pretend to keep its forces within its borders, but it didn't and the gamble was lost. Now the best they can do is bite the bulled, keep this ugly trust, which was forced upon them by putler and try to create better lives without Crimea and eastern part. THEN - seeing how life can better in the western Ukraine - they might ask to be accepted back. Happened already with the split Germany, will happen again I hope.

Funniest thing I hope to see in my life is russia being fucked hard by China and then crying all around because "Siberia was always russia and those imported millions of chinese emigrants should not have the right to vote for joining China". Man that would be something... :rolleyes: