Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 630686 times)

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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6765 on: September 27, 2014, 04:23:53 pm »
+1
http://theorangefiles.hu/state-monopoly-on-the-retail-sale-of-tobacco-2/

http://www.politics.hu/20130628/survey-reveals-big-majority-believe-tobacco-shop-awards-skewed-towards-fidesz-loyalists/

You can believe me when I say this, pro-fidesz ones got it in my town too.
And they took the rights of selling from people who did this for decades, in an instant. People who can't do anything else now.
Many of those are disabled, or old.

This is but one very minor example, I can't really find an english article about the education stuff.

Anyway have a few pictures, if this isn't biased way of giving these spots out, then nothing is.

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Two separate shops in the same building, they are owned by a Husband&Wife.

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This is 4 separate shops, in the same building.

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It was also done without any common sense added, just furthers the accusations. I can confirm they are stupidly close together, close to schools and kindergartens.

Anyway, don't believe their fake nationalist image they project outwards. They have a completely different agenda going on inside.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 04:34:37 pm by Christo »
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Offline Tibe

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6766 on: September 27, 2014, 04:38:57 pm »
+2
You mean a government which fails things and blame others when they are accused of incompetence, and keep trying to sell their program to the masses to keep in power and get elected next? Wow, thats scandalous.
Whats even more scandalous is that they are collaborating with Russia, so I guess it makes it even more scandalous on the average scandalous meter.
You see the thing about collaborating with Russia is that there is no nice middleground or soft analfucking like it is with EU. "Collaboration" with Russia means selling out, unless you are out of their reach geographically or just too powerful for them. They will NOT negotiate with those that are weaker than them and that they dont control. Really look deeper into these weaker countries that are friends with Russia. Basically all of them lack an actual government of their own, their whole purpouse of exsisting is serving Kremlin. And before you start saying shit like Tovi does: "But EU is same". I can say its not. Tovi clearly doesnt know jackshit about puppeted governments or anything related to eastern Europe. While im no expert myself, I can be 100% confident I know more about the subject than Tovi or Murmillus the one with eyes wide open combined.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6767 on: September 27, 2014, 06:11:48 pm »
0
Might be all true, but how to know the same is not true for EU, because its not enough to say "hey, I know man..." even a citizen of Hungary can only grasp at the truth and even then its hard to differentiate political enemies and truth diggers.
Even harder to differentiate true and false accusations with every government on the planet being called corrupt/populist/liars everyday by more or less every branches of the nation and outsiders, some for their own interest.
I dont dig into the "eastern system is intrisically bad" yet, not convinced throughfully.

Anyway dont take my jabs as if I dont listen to what you say, I mostly wanted to provoke you into giving me your point of views, which I like to share  :mrgreen:

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6768 on: September 27, 2014, 07:26:26 pm »
+1
Oh whats happening... THIS, SCANDALOUS! REBELS DECIDED THAT ARTILERY IS BEST PLACED NEXT TO CIVILIAN HOMES! BESTEST PROTECTION EVER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY4DgqM72xA

Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6769 on: September 27, 2014, 07:31:46 pm »
+1
even ukranians left this topic
lol

Offline Thomek

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6770 on: September 27, 2014, 07:48:15 pm »
+6
The eastern system in practice is horrible and awful Butan..

Corruption there is the norm on all levels of society. Every little inch of power is turned into monetary or other gains on a whole different level than you see in western countries. That system is a ME ME ME ME system 100 times worse than western system.

This is what people in the west just don't get. Because wasn't it supposed to be socialism over there? Not as hard core society as here?

In reality, life in USSR and post-USSR was very though. A culture of lying and deceit was bred since stalin's purges. A necessity for survival in many people's eyes.

....

In Poland (USSR light) they have a word: "Kombinowac" a verb which means to "fix" to "trick it", which was a complete necessity during communism if you wanted something, and I would say Polish society still suffers from that mentality. It could be simple schemes like:  I help your cousin get a car, and you help my daughter get into medical school. It has also a more sinister side though, where people would always try to trick you, so everyone tried to trick the other person back. Like the car would have it's radio ripped out because it wasn't mentioned..

Teachers in my school, this year wanted to kick out a student for various reasons, but they had no legal grounds. So the teachers internally agreed not to consult the student on his project. Without consultation his exam was invalid, thus he got kicked out. In Poland, such powerabuse is common, and there is nothing a student can do about it. No repercussions to the teachers involved.

Basically: People in power can do what they want with no repercussion. You can be fucked suddenly on a whim by people in power, and there is jack shit you can do.

This constant paranoia is much much MUCH worse in Russia. Law is easily bought. Just ask western (or russian.. )companies that have tried to start telecom or whatnot. Some corrupt siberian court in middle of nowhere can make any contract void and null.

Butan, you are a reasonable person, and I do believe you see me as one as well.

Just.. go there. You seem to have some kind of connection. Go there and see for yourself.

It's not a good place for humans to live their lives. At least not compared to the west. This is why I understand and sympathize with Maidan. Those people saw there was another way, and they wanted their country to do the right thing.

I don't love the west, it's just the best there is, and way more able to improve itself than a static eastern system. By far the best of two evils.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 07:52:20 pm by Thomek »
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That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Tovi

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6771 on: September 27, 2014, 08:09:36 pm »
0
Dombass fighters :

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Azov batalion :

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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6772 on: September 27, 2014, 08:16:35 pm »
+2
Haha Thomek, good luck explaining to them why the east is so absurd.

You give money to bribe doctors to get the treatment, while the system is supposed to be free  :mrgreen:

We also have this kind of phenomenon, called different names, "okosba" is one of them, basically meaning do things the "smart" or "cunning" way. Yep, this built-in corruption is meant to be used and is taken as a smart thing to do here, it's not judged by the people.

If you can game the system, you are a respected man basically. If not then you are nothing.

It's the burden-gift of the Kádárist society, and it will never go from this area of europe.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 08:23:44 pm by Christo »
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Offline Maksimus

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6773 on: September 27, 2014, 08:31:23 pm »
+5
(click to show/hide)
Thomek, I can disagree with you, maybe you are talking about 90s then I can agree. Well I can say after USSR was broken, all people in Russia thought that USA will help Russia to become democratic country, I remember how many talkings were about that, but USA used that situation, NATO moved to the East, many billions of dollars went to USA and Europe and Russia sucked for 15 years, a lot of people in Russia became poor. Very interesting why the corruption raised so high. Europe and USA with pleasure got all those money and people who left the country with those money. About business in my country, you should watch the statistics about how many foreign companies open their branches in Russia. Russia only now becomes more powerfull and tries to make people's life better. And this anti-russian propoganda will not help to solve any problems with Russia. We have enough resourses to become the most powerfull country and we started to do it, seems somebody on the West doesn't like it.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6774 on: September 27, 2014, 09:09:41 pm »
0
Oh whats happening... THIS, SCANDALOUS! REBELS DECIDED THAT ARTILERY IS BEST PLACED NEXT TO CIVILIAN HOMES! BESTEST PROTECTION EVER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY4DgqM72xA

Pretty rare footage stuff.
No comment on "placement" in warfare, you know my position  :P



+1 to all on this page coz good stuff.
Feels good to read not uber extreme views all the time.

Offline Mala

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6775 on: September 27, 2014, 09:30:24 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)
... NATO moved to the East...
The promise was "no permanent deployment of NATO troops in former Warsaw pact states" a tiny difference.

Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6776 on: September 27, 2014, 09:34:16 pm »
+1
+1 to all on this page coz good stuff.
Feels good to read not uber extreme views all the time.

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Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6777 on: September 27, 2014, 09:35:45 pm »
+1
The promise was "no permanent deployment of NATO troops in former Warsaw pact states" a tiny difference.
Who really cares about agreements. There was agreement in Ukraine from 21 february 2014 which would allow Ukraine to become "independent" as many people thinks from Russia without loosing Crimea and war on the East. Do you know what Europe thinks about it they just wiped an arse with that document.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6778 on: September 27, 2014, 09:44:55 pm »
+1
Both Thomek and Maksimus have a valid point. Thomek explained eastern way of life very well. But Maksimus is right that west don't want strong Russia. Believing in such a thing is like believing that people who play cRPG do it to help each other become better and not to compete against each other, using cunning tricks most of the time.

It is a very difficult position without an easy exit. What needs to happen is to people start using their brains a lot more but we know that is utopia. Therefore, for majority it will only become worse from this point onwards. Majority everywhere, not just in Russia. We had golden years after reconstruction in WWII aftermath. But those times are behind us and there are serious attempts to provoke another big war to keep things going. Elite rules us like rider reigns over his horse, if he let him go for too long he might not perform very well. So put some pressure on him, beat him with a stick occasionally for maximum performance.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6779 on: September 27, 2014, 11:12:47 pm »
0
it will only become worse from this point onwards.

Because we become better everyday.



There was agreement in Ukraine from 21 february 2014 which would allow Ukraine to become "independent" as many people thinks from Russia without loosing Crimea and war on the East. Do you know what Europe thinks about it they just wiped an arse with that document.


Sssshhhhh.... dont tell them the whole story!  :mrgreen:


Anyway, it was a bit like some propositions from Poroshenko to stop the unrest: not far enough and far too late.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 11:16:17 pm by Butan »