Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kuujis]

A fanatic balt president telling shit how it IS:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lithuanias-president-russia-is-terrorizing-its-neighbors-and-using-terrorist-methods/2014/09/24/eb32b9fc-4410-11e4-b47c-f5889e061e5f_story.html

The funniest thing is - comments under the article are the same as here mostly, just maybe less name calling 

[Butan]

Or "When presidents are as hopelessly stupid as their own citizens".

[Kuujis]

Or "When presidents are as hopelessly stupid as their own citizens".

Or "When people with personal experience in the matter tell how it actually is and not what putlers propaganda wants to call it".

[Butan]

Or "When people with personal experience in the matter tell how it actually is and not what putlers propaganda wants to call it".

Or "When confusing reality with counter-propaganda".
We can go on forever   



But srsly, this thread lacks general information on whats happening in Ukraine since ceasefire... I wish more people posted like you Kuujis  Dont let this thread die, its like my own child! (and also major source of income!)

[Kuujis]

Or "When confusing reality with counter-propaganda".
We can go on forever   

But srsly, this thread lacks general information on whats happening in Ukraine since ceasefire... I wish more people posted like you Kuujis  Dont let this thread die, its like my own child! (and also major source of income!)

Just to continue: Or "When confusing seeing reality with counter-instead of propaganda tinted BS".

About whats happening...
1. I read about Poroshenko saying categorical NO to "peace making contingents" which were proposed by russia, citing Moldova and Georgia examples.
2. I read some interesting (but not verified) story about 50 of the white trucks being destroyed during the huge blast some time ago in some weapon plant near Donetsk. No clue what they were doing there or if their cargo was the cause of the blast.
3. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29374151 is an interesting development... I guess Hungary does not want all the cash it gets from EU and would be better off folowing Georgian example.
4. putler apparently changed his ming regarding the postponement of EU-Ukraine trade agreement implementation. I.e. he was expecting (and seems to be expecting) that there will be full re-negotiation, but not much politicians in EU think so... http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a4de51ae-44ca-11e4-9a5a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ENTlXazR
5. And then - sad reality in the east Ukraine -  http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/an-orwellian-nightmare-for-pro-ukrainians-in-rebel-held-east/2014/09/24/1bc10b94-4a70-4419-aceb-16e10d92528a_story.html
6. An interesting idea of one semi-fameous Pole - http://www.timesofoman.com/News/40454/Article-%E2%80%98Poland-needs-nuclear-arms-to-thwart-Russia%E2%80%99

Oh, and I missed this one:
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-russia-says-eu-mustnt-re-export-gas-to-ukraine-report-2014-9

Because once russia sells you gas - it still has the right to tell you what you can do with it... it is known.

[DonNicko]

[Christo]

And what about the mass graves the insurgents made, they killed people just to get their cars.

Of course they are angels never hurting anybody, but the Ukrainian army is the evil satan jewish gay chocolate chip cookieconspirator

Typical RT

[Butan]

4. putler apparently changed his ming regarding the postponement of EU-Ukraine trade agreement implementation. I.e. he was expecting (and seems to be expecting) that there will be full re-negotiation, but not much politicians in EU think so... http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a4de51ae-44ca-11e4-9a5a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3ENTlXazR

Cant read without account 

And 1. and 2. doesnt surprise me 

3. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29374151 is an interesting development... I guess Hungary does not want all the cash it gets from EU and would be better off folowing Georgian example.

First time I hear there is one european country who is not feeding from pure unaldutered anti-russian hate.
There may yet be hope for the human race, or they just a second Yanukovitch sucking hypocrite...

5. And then - sad reality in the east Ukraine -  http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/an-orwellian-nightmare-for-pro-ukrainians-in-rebel-held-east/2014/09/24/1bc10b94-4a70-4419-aceb-16e10d92528a_story.html

Rebels resistance inside a rebellion inside a war zone inside a besieged city.
Tough life to be between civilian and military...

6. An interesting idea of one semi-fameous Pole - http://www.timesofoman.com/News/40454/Article-%E2%80%98Poland-needs-nuclear-arms-to-thwart-Russia%E2%80%99

Very interesting idea. Never ever heard something of that caliber... Maybe we should push it a bit farther: would be better if we just "convinced" (read, bribe or blackmail or let Russia do the convincing!) every country in the planet to join NATO, build NATO bases 360° around Russia manned with nukes and then there will never be a problem, or if there is well lets just say noone living will be able to blame us for it ever 
I dont think if Ukraine had nukes situation would have been any different: would they have nuked Donetsk and Luhansk after rebels took position, knowing there was still a lot of citizens and ukrainian rebels along their russian counterparts?
Russia has nukes and it still didnt launch at Ukraine despite the fact there is alleged shelling of their national territory amidst the all-out fight near the borders.
Nukes = pre-emptive intimidation to STOP conventional war from being declared, once unconventional war and other kind of shit start, it serves nothing except possible wiping of human race or a ending a la Japan WWII.

http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-russia-says-eu-mustnt-re-export-gas-to-ukraine-report-2014-9
Because once russia sells you gas - it still has the right to tell you what you can do with it... it is known.

A deal is made by the sellers not the buyers.
Not hard to understand why they dont want Ukraine to be fed gas even if they are getting paid for it.
Same reasons Ukraine dont want rebels to be fed anything if they can stop it, whoever dies along the way of starvation or cold.

If you are unsurprised/unshocked by X, be unsurprised/unshocked at everything

[Christo]

First time I hear there is one european country who is not feeding from pure unaldutered anti-russian hate.
There may yet be hope for the human race, or they just a second Yanukovitch sucking hypocrite...

Putting faith in Orbán?

You know clearly nothing about the state of hungarian politics.

Or the lack of, to be honest

[DonNicko]

And what about the mass graves the insurgents made, they killed people just to get their cars.

Of course they are angels never hurting anybody, but the Ukrainian army is the evil satan jewish gay chocolate chip cookieconspirator

Typical RT

I gave RT because didn't find something another on english, all others are on russian. I watched about mass graves the insurgents made, really didn't find that this was an execution. Just some mass graves. Maybe they were killed from shelling or were killed by separatists, but they were covered with some cloth and on the video I gave, people were executed and buried randomly

[Butan]

Putting faith in Orbán?

You know clearly nothing about the state of hungarian politics.

Or the lack of, to be honest

I dont know anything about Hungarian politics.
By your reaction I guess its not a good country, more like an evil country?

But I really dont know anything about them, so if you want to inform me, go ahead 

And what about the mass graves the insurgents made, they killed people just to get their cars.

Of course they are angels never hurting anybody, but the Ukrainian army is the evil satan jewish gay chocolate chip cookieconspirator

Mass graves, as in people who died in a war zone and have been buried?
You're the kind of "never seen a war" guy who screams genocide after seeing a village or two burned to the ground.

Cookieconspirator right back at you


INB4 omg Butan justify crimes... there certainly is people mass buried to hide how they died, summarily executed for "treason" shit, but mass graves is a part of war whether you like it or not. There isnt always time (nor will) nor possibility to identify corpses before they rot and begin to smell like shit. Which is a reasonable and legit way to justify mass burying possibly summarily executed people who did no wrong... the circle of war and hatred.
Good luck finding who did what.

(click to show/hide)

+1 for the c&c vid despite clumsiness of argument

[Christo]

I dont know anything about Hungarian politics.
By your reaction I guess its not a good country, more like an evil country?

Evil? Well, arguably power mongering regime that controls everything, 2/3rd of parliamentary control, giving out positions to "friends" with shady backgrounds and creating networks that only benefit them, to make a centralized flow of money and governmential control.

All this in the name of populism and nationalism, the masses take the bait easily, like the program where they aim to decrease people's bills, and fight back and apply justice to the eeeevil banks. (All of this is arguably bullshit and is already hurting)
 Total change of the educational system to create servants, not allowing them to get out of the country as easily, and it goes on, and on, and on.

Basically a powermongering 1 party regime with no opposition. Abusing populist bullshit to get votes

Orbán is selling the country out to the Russians, look up Paks power plant investment contracts for an example.
http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/a-brief-summary-of-the-russian-hungarian-agreement-on-the-paks-nuclear-power-plant/

Meanwhile hungarian debt is sky high, it was never this high before, not even during socialist control, which Fidesz claims to be their doing, when it isn't. They are in control since 2010, and it is rising ever since. But if I turn on TV or Radio, all I can see or hear is that

"Hungary performs better", basically a multi-million propaganda program to hide these problems on the media, and etc.

It's just the top of the mountain in addition to his policies in general, like building unnecessary Stadiums which are not used at all.
Screw that dwarf mini-putin

[Kuujis]

I gave RT because didn't find something another on english, all others are on russian. I watched about mass graves the insurgents made, really didn't find that this was an execution. Just some mass graves. Maybe they were killed from shelling or were killed by separatists, but they were covered with some cloth and on the video I gave, people were executed and buried randomly

And this particular bolded statement/fact you described... it speaks VOLUMES to me, but not to you. I even stopped wondering WHY...

Cant read without account 

Just for you:)

(click to show/hide)

Vladimir Putin has demanded a reopening of the EU’s recently-ratified trade pact with Ukraine and has threatened “immediate and appropriate retaliatory measures” if Kiev moves to implement any parts of the deal. The demand, made in a letter to European Commission President José Manuel Barroso, reflects Russia’s determination to put a brake on Ukraine’s integration into Europe and other Euro-Atlantic organisations such as Nato, even after annexing Crimea and creating a pro-Russian separatist entity in the east of the country.

It also comes amid a fresh crackdown on Russia’s oligarchs, exemplified by the recent house arrest of billionaire businessman Vladimir Yevtushenkov, which was extended by a court on Thursday. The integration treaty was the spark that set off the 10-month Ukraine crisis after the country’s then-president, Viktor Yanukovich, backed out of the deal. Petro Poroshenko, the new Ukrainian president, has made integration with the EU a key objective of his presidency.

But this is strongly opposed by Moscow, which is determined to keep Ukraine within its own economic sphere of influence.

Mr Putin’s letter argues that a 15-month delay in implementing part of the deal – which Kiev and the EU agreed to earlier this month – should be used to “establish negotiating teams” to make wholesale changes to the deal. Ukraine and the EU agreed to the delay under Russian pressure but view it only as a means of reassuring the Kremlin that it will not harm Russian economic ties to Ukraine.

“We still believe that only systemic adjustments of the association agreement, which take into account the full range of risks to Russian-Ukrainian economic ties and to the whole Russian economy arising from implementation of the agreement, will allow [us] to retain existing trade and economic considerations between the Russian Federation and Ukraine,” Mr Putin says in his letter. EU officials have remained adamant the treaty cannot be changed despite Kremlin demands that as many as 2,400 tariff lines be modified in the pact.

It’s like a scud that’s prepared. It’s not yet launched, but it’s ready to be launched - Karel De Gucht, EU trade chief “We are creating a kind of ‘time out’; you could call this a ‘peace clause’,” Karel De Gucht, the EU’s trade chief who negotiated directly with Mr Putin last month in Minsk, said in an interview. “The Russians, of course, they do not see this as a period of clarification but as a time they can put on the table a personne interposée [third party] – in fact emptying the agreement.”

Mr Putin’s letter appeared part of a growing realisation in Moscow that the 15-month hiatus had not won the Kremlin any concrete concessions since it allowed the treaty’s ratification to proceed. According to one person briefed on internal Kremlin deliberations, the hiatus led to a bust-up within the Russian government shortly after it was agreed.

“There was a complete breakdown in communication within the administration, and those participating in the talks including economy minister [Alexei] Ulyukaev got scolded really badly,” said the person. In the letter, sent the day after the Ukrainian and European parliaments simultaneously ratified the pact, Mr Putin warns any move towards changing Ukrainian laws to better align them with EU regulations would be considered “an infringement” of the hiatus warranting retaliation. “It’s like a scud that’s prepared. It’s not yet launched, but it’s ready to be launched,” said Mr De Gucht. He insisted the agreement had no provisions preventing Kiev from adjusting its domestic standards during the hiatus. Mr Poroshenko on Thursday set out an ambitious plan designed to get Ukraine ready to apply for EU membership by 2020, an indication he is unwilling to delay legislative reforms despite the Russian threat. The plan included measures to fight corruption, decentralise power, reduce Ukraine’s reliance on Russian energy and reform the justice systems.

The new stand-off over the treaty comes ahead of a meeting on Tuesday of EU diplomats tasked with weighing whether to suspend sanctions imposed on Russia. A senior Nato diplomat said conventional Russian troops had mostly withdrawn from Ukraine and a recent exchange of prisoners was a sign Mr Putin, for the first time, may be serious about de-escalation. But EU diplomats said it remains highly unlikely Brussels would back off any measures next week, saying the largest European countries – particularly Germany – believe the Kremlin has not done nearly enough to warrant such a move. Although the European Commission has been tasked with drawing up options to suspend the sanctions, Mr De Gucht said it was unlikely to recommend such actions. “At this moment in time, there is no reason whatsoever to change anything to the sanctions,” he said. “What you really should have is a peace plan respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine. That’s not yet in place.”

As to Hungary - last thing that got into news from there was massive decrease in freedom of press and other ... shall we call them "centralizing" reforms. Would be interesting to hear from the more informed sources though...

[Christo]

As to Hungary - last thing that got into news from there was massive decrease in freedom of press and ...

Well guess why you haven't heard of it ever since 

[Butan]

Those are kind of generic statement and accusations.

Evil? Well, arguably power mongering regime that controls everything, 2/3rd of parliamentary control, giving out positions to "friends" with shady backgrounds and creating networks that only benefit them, to make a centralized flow of money and governmential control.

More details? Or it can sound like, they won elections and use their positions to do laws and shit, nominating their counsellors which works for more power?
Also examples on corrupted personages from the government and projects where there was undue influence or pressure?

Total change of the educational system to create servants, not allowing them to get out of the country as easily, and it goes on, and on, and on.

?
Servants as in, civil servants? Thats a bad thing down there?
And they cant go abroad, what? 

Meanwhile hungarian debt is sky high, it was never this high before, not even during socialist control, which Fidesz claims to be their doing, when it isn't. They are in control since 2010, and it is rising ever since. But if I turn on TV or Radio, all I can see or hear is that

"Hungary performs better", basically a multi-million propaganda program to hide these problems on the media, and etc.

It's just the top of the mountain in addition to his policies in general, like building unnecessary Stadiums which are not used at all.

You mean a government which fails things and blame others when they are accused of incompetence, and keep trying to sell their program to the masses to keep in power and get elected next? Wow, thats scandalous.
Whats even more scandalous is that they are collaborating with Russia, so I guess it makes it even more scandalous on the average scandalous meter.