Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kuujis]

Any one who played as Russia know tactics "Feed on Ukraine with territories and annex eventually"

Fixed that for you.

[Umbra]

Any one who played as Russia know tactics "Feed Ukraine with territories and annex"

All those tasty Ruthenian cores. OM NOM NOM

[Murmillus_Prime]

To ignore so many instances of  aggression, bloodshed, interference, breaching of multiple nations sovereignty by Russia simply because the other side just so happens to be Ukrainian is an attitude similarly held by a racist, and it holds little to no substance."

You are making it so easy.

No I'm not Christo. The east UKRAINIANS are being bombed and shelled by UKRAINIANS AND MERCENARIES. Ok.. Your point, shattered. I mean after all, I've stated the blatant hypocrisy on the Wests stance about a state bombing its own people time and time again and have been opposed to a military solution in the Ukrainian crisis as it may not only further the suffering of the poor and innocent but drag us all into a world war. Looks like many of you want another world war, you've bought so much into the Western rhetoric toward Russia that you'd be waving NATO flags when the outbreak of WW3 commences, and instead of admitting a political solution is preferable to a military one in East Ukraine, many of you would rather point out things like, "Russia's living conditions are like ** and EU's living conditions are like ** and therefore attacking Russia is justified.... Utter drivel.

[Kuujis]

No I'm not Christo. The east UKRAINIANS are being bombed and shelled by UKRAINIANS AND MERCENARIES. Ok.. Your point, shattered. I mean after all, I've stated the blatant hypocrisy on the Wests stance about a state bombing its own people time and time again and have been opposed to a military solution in the Ukrainian crisis as it may not only further the suffering of the poor and innocent but drag us all into a world war. Looks like many of you want another world war, you've bought so much into the Western rhetoric toward Russia that you'd be waving NATO flags when the outbreak of WW3 commences, and instead of admitting a political solution is preferable to a military one in East Ukraine, many of you would rather point out things like, "Russia's living conditions are like ** and EU's living conditions are like ** and therefore attacking Russia is justified.... Utter drivel.

Well... I can't call this your usual LIE exactly, because you did not state, that "ONLY" Ukrainian army and mercs (where the fuck Ukraine takes money from for hiring of MERCS??? Can you please share your sources/ideas?) are shelling civilians. FOR THE RECORD, if the shelling was "proper", as was done by russians during their attempt to crush rebelling chechnyans at siege of Grozno, the numbers of civilians dead would be in tens of thousands, not ~3k, where it stands now. So there goes your "bombing civilians" argument... SHATTERED!

Last time wanabee pacifists got their way was before WW2, when one particular naztee was allowed to do what he wants. You are arguing to repeat this. Sounds logical... NOT. No sane mind wants a war, problem is - you gotta draw a red line somewhere and if you draw it too far - the consequences are too harsh. Which is what YOU are advocating.

And the last, but not LEAST item is, that you bought into russian rhetoric so much, as only a completely naive westerner, never having to deal with putlers russia, could have done.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Well... I can't call this your usual LIE exactly, because you did not state, that "ONLY" Ukrainian army and mercs (where the fuck Ukraine takes money from for hiring of MERCS??? Can you please share your sources/ideas?) are shelling civilians. FOR THE RECORD, if the shelling was "proper", as was done by russians during their attempt to crush rebelling chechnyans at siege of Grozno, the numbers of civilians dead would be in tens of thousands, not ~3k, where it stands now. So there goes your "bombing civilians" argument... SHATTERED!

Last time wanabee pacifists got their way was before WW2, when one particular naztee was allowed to do what he wants. You are arguing to repeat this. Sounds logical... NOT. No sane mind wants a war, problem is - you gotta draw a red line somewhere and if you draw it too far - the consequences are too harsh. Which is what YOU are advocating.

And the last, but not LEAST item is, that you bought into russian rhetoric so much, as only a completely naive westerner, never having to deal with putlers russia, could have done.

Shelling and bombing civilians is just that, whether 1 civilian or 1 million civilians die, civilians are still being shelled, based on the REALITY on the ground you have not shattered my argument imbecile. You accuse me of lying but can't prove it, call my lying usual but still can't prove it, strange, you'd have thought if it were such a usual occurrence then the disproving of my purported lies would also be a usual occurrence, but of course it's not.

"Wannabe pacifists", I didn't see many wannabe pacifists in Germany, Austria before the outbreak of WW2, their populations were almost entirely compliant with their governments views and actions, as people like you are with the NATO governments. History does repeat but not the way you think it does.

And I haven't bought completely into Russian rhetoric I know it has holes in it, as does the Western narrative, but at least I am able to source my information from both sides and make my mind up rather than idiots who are like, "RT PROPAGANDA, ANNA PROPAGANDA, BBC, SKY GOOD!".

[Xant]

And again Murmillus proves he has no idea what he's talking about. DaveUKR, for one, has already stated that only Ukrainian army has artillery.

[Molly]

No we're not Murmi. The offical Ukrainian army is being bombed and shelled by the Russian army supported terrorists. Ok.. Your point, shattered. I mean after all, I've stated the blatant hypocrisy on the Russian stance about terrorists bombing its own people time and time again and have been opposed to a military solution in the Ukrainian crisis as it may not only further the suffering of the poor and innocent but drag us all into new imperialism. Looks like many of you want another USSR, you've bought so much into the Russian rhetoric lies toward the NATO that you'd be waving Russian flags when the outbreak of USSR commences, and instead of admitting a quick solution is preferable to none at all in East Ukraine, many of you would rather point out things like, "Western conspiracy bullshit are like ** and Russia's living conditions are like ** and therefore defending the sovereign Ukraine is justified.... Utter drivel.

[Murmillus_Prime]

And again Murmillus proves he has no idea what he's talking about. DaveUKR, for one, has already stated that only Ukrainian army has artillery.

What an incredibly inane statement to make Xant, although it's not unusual coming from you.

[Xant]

What an incredibly inane statement to make Xant, although it's not unusual coming from you.

Inane because you're proven wrong once again? 

[Murmillus_Prime]

No we're not Murmi. The offical Ukrainian army is being bombed and shelled by the Russian army supported terrorists. Ok.. Your point, shattered. I mean after all, I've stated the blatant hypocrisy on the Russian stance about terrorists bombing its own people time and time again and have been opposed to a military solution in the Ukrainian crisis as it may not only further the suffering of the poor and innocent but drag us all into new imperialism. Looks like many of you want another USSR, you've bought so much into the Russian rhetoric lies toward the NATO that you'd be waving Russian flags when the outbreak of USSR commences, and instead of admitting a quick solution is preferable to none at all in East Ukraine, many of you would rather point out things like, "Western conspiracy bullshit are like ** and Russia's living conditions are like ** and therefore defending the sovereign Ukraine is justified.... Utter drivel.

Official Ukrainian army, filled with foreign fighters... Right.. OFFICIAL.. LEGITIMATE.. NOT.

Still no point shattered by hyperbole and inane statements some of which are attempts at copying my own statements but replacing key words.

Russia took Crimea, via referendum, (admittedly with the security of the Russian Naval forces legitimately stationed there) hardly a life was lost. Sections of East Ukrainian society wanted to also break away from Ukraine or at a bare minimum be afforded greater autonomy, how were their requests and demands responded to? By Ukrainian artillery fire, bombing raids and Ukrainian propaganda about "terrorists", months later, hundreds of thousands displaced, tens of thousands dead later and we have the shitty situation we see today.

Had the coup installed Ukrainian regime allowed the East Ukrainians more autonomy, greater reassurances of their right to participate in the wider Ukrainian society then we would not have the bloodshed we see today, and yet you still blame this shit all on the Russians and blaming it on a purported Russian imperialism, when it's only really NATO that's been growing ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union and not the Russian federation, with the exception of Crimea this year, which by comparison is a microcosm.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Inane because you're proven wrong once again? 

Proven wrong? It's widely known that both the Ukrainian government and separatists have access to artillery, but you stated only the Ukrainian government did, which in itself is an inane statement Xant, unless you were attempting to be sarcastic?

[Molly]

[...]
Russia took Crimea, via referendum, (admittedly with the security of the Russian Naval forces legitimately stationed there) hardly a life was lost.
[...]

Stopped reading there since it's so stupidly wrong, why waste time reading the rest.
The contract for the stationed forces has been discussed very early in this thread. Under no circumstances were they allowed to leave the base w/o approval from local authorities. Which was never given by the relevant persons. Just this little fact makes it a military annexation and nothing else.
Not to mention that the referendum was rigged. That has been discussed too early in this thread.

I get the feeling you simply didn't read the thread, did you now.

[Xant]

Proven wrong? It's widely known that both the Ukrainian government and separatists have access to artillery, but you stated only the Ukrainian government did, which in itself is an inane statement Xant, unless you were attempting to be sarcastic?

Yep, dumber than Tovi.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Stopped reading there since it's so stupidly wrong, why waste time reading the rest.
The contract for the stationed forces has been discussed very early in this thread. Under no circumstances were they allowed to leave the base w/o approval from local authorities. Which was never given by the relevant persons. Just this little fact makes it a military annexation and nothing else.
Not to mention that the referendum was rigged. That has been discussed too early in this thread.

I get the feeling you simply didn't read the thread, did you now.

It's stupidly wrong? The forces existed in Crimea legitimately, they did not cross the Russian/Ukrainian border as part of one of the phantom invasions the Ukrainian regime has accused Russia of time and time again.

You say the referendum was rigged? Where's your proof? Can you prove our referenda and elections in the West are NOT rigged? I had read reports about vote rigging in Crimea, the "dead" voting ect, the GOP and Democrats in the U.S have been accused of exactly the same type of strategy years ago.

[Murmillus_Prime]

Yep, dumber than Tovi.

Say's the NATO mouthpiece, shit for brains Xant.