Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 628277 times)

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Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6120 on: September 01, 2014, 09:27:01 am »
0
Well at least you capitalize it... I have a hard time capitalizing russia or putler now.
its not me its google, i write "россия" and "путлер"  :lol:

oh shit 1:37  :shock:
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:32:20 am by Vovka »
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Offline Yarl

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6121 on: September 01, 2014, 09:31:36 am »
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meanwhile in Russia:
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Wtf is wrong with you guys?
silly
It's a Russian Marsh., just bunch of nazzy idiots, tsar's fans and other strange people  even football hooligans and Restrukt don't support them. They have one day for their shit, waving flags and shouting stuff and nothing more. Why not? They have opportunity to show their opinion. Democracy lol!
And nobody will cry like  a pussy "ohhh look at them nаzi nаzi nаzi"

If you want learn about real russian chocolate chip cookie, not that clowns with flags,  you better read about Dmitry Borovikov, Schultz88, Lincoln88, NSS. They did real shit.  guess where they now? 

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6122 on: September 01, 2014, 09:44:53 am »
0
silly
It's a Russian Marsh., just bunch of nazzy idiots, tsar's fans and other strange people  even football hooligans and Restrukt don't support them. They have one day for their shit, waving flags and shouting stuff and nothing more. Why not? They have opportunity to show their opinion. Democracy lol!
And nobody will cry like  a pussy "ohhh look at them nаzi nаzi nаzi"

If you want learn about real russian chocolate chip cookie, not that clowns with flags,  you better read about Dmitry Borovikov, Schultz88, Lincoln88, NSS. They did real shit.  guess where they now?

This text you wrote... replace "russian" with "any other state" (INCLUDING Ukraine), correct some names/references... and you get a pretty much representative description of situation of fringe-right elements in almost EVERY society, where freedom of expression is more-or-less tolerated. Ofc there are differences and some government are more lenient than others and some would argue, that russian government is one of the MORE lenient,  but I can't argue one way or another, because I don't know. :rolleyes:

HAVING SAID THAT - do you know any other nation in Europe, who would invade another country "to protect russianits compatriots"? I know only one. Last one, which tried this almost 70 years ago, caused WW2. How do you feel about belonging to a nation, which may cause WW3?

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6123 on: September 01, 2014, 10:48:39 am »
0
:mrgreen:
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6124 on: September 01, 2014, 01:27:39 pm »
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In putlers russia - russia does not get excluded from G8. Its simply the fact, tha the other 7 "partners" did not show up...
http://ria.ru/politics/20140901/1022238293.html

Also - a nice description of all the BS, which is being caused in Ukraine outlined in a speech almost a YEAR prior to actual events:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-29/moscow-strategists-view-world-as-war-theater . And then putler stands up and straight up lies to his sheep-people, who then proceed to rejoice.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 01:38:54 pm by Kuujis »

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6125 on: September 01, 2014, 01:58:46 pm »
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In putlers russia - russia does not get excluded from G8. Its simply the fact, tha the other 7 "partners" did not show up...
http://ria.ru/politics/20140901/1022238293.html

Also - a nice description of all the BS, which is being caused in Ukraine outlined in a speech almost a YEAR prior to actual events:
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-29/moscow-strategists-view-world-as-war-theater . And then putler stands up and straight up lies to his sheep-people, who then proceed to rejoice.
do u really read all dat shitty articles whta u post here? it soo many letters  :P and no one pictures  :(
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6126 on: September 01, 2014, 02:02:21 pm »
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do u really read all dat shitty articles whta u post here? it soo many letters  :P and no one pictures  :(
I read the second one, it was interesting :)

The first was in kirilica and the heading was all I read :D Its still was funnier than your youtube video :P  8-)

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6127 on: September 01, 2014, 03:02:29 pm »
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I read the second one, it was interesting :)

The first was in kirilica and the heading was all I read :D Its still was funnier than your youtube video :P  8-)
omg and its was really interesting for u?!?! time to talk about ur sex live!
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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6128 on: September 01, 2014, 03:04:52 pm »
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omg and its was really interesting for u?!?! time to talk about ur sex live!
Time for  "yo mama" joke now:

"Thats not what your moma said" :P

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6129 on: September 01, 2014, 03:19:44 pm »
-4
This is the sad reality and pretty much sums up what I think:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/arm-ukraine-or-surrender.html?referrer=&_r=0


Ukraine already asked and received money, equipment. Mainly US and IMF, mainly cold cash, and no weapons, but that would not be surprising if the cash was used to buy war gear, and the equipment given to soldiers.
There is also alleged presence of military advisors in Ukraine, and I've read a few times that they could have received technology to help fight against the rebels.

It will be harder for some to accept this possibility, than Russia being involved etc, but it is real that Ukraine is already being armed... it could become more "openly" armed in the near future but it would only be a step up in the direct confrontation, not really a new thing.



If you think the bankrupted Ukraine is fighting alone against evil Russian backed rebels, its time to wake up :P




And for the record - I think West cannot allow another defeat  :|

I think thats you saying your opinion here  :wink:  and one of the crucial point of the east vs west mentality: geopolitical motived confrontations that are unfortunately backed by the people of both side because of the "cold war honor".
This, is the sad reality.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 03:27:21 pm by Butan »

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6130 on: September 01, 2014, 03:47:52 pm »
+1

Ukraine already asked and received money, equipment. Mainly US and IMF, mainly cold cash, and no weapons, but that would not be surprising if the cash was used to buy war gear, and the equipment given to soldiers.
There is also alleged presence of military advisors in Ukraine, and I've read a few times that they could have received technology to help fight against the rebels.

It will be harder for some to accept this possibility, than Russia being involved etc, but it is real that Ukraine is already being armed... it could become more "openly" armed in the near future but it would only be a step up in the direct confrontation, not really a new thing.

If you think the bankrupted Ukraine is fighting alone against evil Russian backed rebels, its time to wake up :P
They did receive the loans, but I believe the main funding source for this war for now is the additional 1.5% tax increase, which was done recently. As for military instructors, etc - I believe the scale of these things is ANYTHING, but sufficient. And scale matters in this case. 10 guys coming from NATO to work in ATO HQ is inadequate. On the other hand - I do not know the situation, but there might be enough potential in the current Ukraine officer corps to handle this, so this brings to another point - technical support. Like NVG stuff, FLIRS, AT weapons. Light weapons - I believe are plentifull in Ukraine, modern heavier weapons - I do not know, but knowing the state of our own army - those modern pieces are expensive and thus - not readily available.

In addition - what I would like to see and I think is technically and politically feasible (AND I'm ready to waste my tax money on this) is full blown surveillance of separatists via NATO monitoring capabilities (drones, satelites, radio monitoring, etc.) coupled with broad sharing of this data by passing it to Ukraine forces.

I think thats you saying your opinion here  :wink:  and one of the crucial point of the east vs west mentality: geopolitical motived confrontations that are unfortunately backed by the people of both side because of the "cold war honor".
This, is the sad reality.
Cold war story is that Ukraine is a brotherly nation to russia, where do they get the anti-east mentality from... I WONDER.

Lets play a history game. There was a country No1, whose part was thickly inhabited by "nationals" of Country No2. Country No2 decided decided that it needs to protect its nationals withing Country No1 and annexed part of it. When the leader of Country No2 felt no significant consequences from other countries due to this annexation - he continued to do what ever he wanted, which ended up in a world war.

And the game is: NAME THE COUNTRIES INVOVED.

I fully understand (AND SUPPORT) diplomacy (even if I don't look like this), but there is this one joke, which pretty much sums up what is happening now: don't bring a knife to a gunfight. There is another applicable joke too: a word and a gun is much stronger than just a word.

I'm baffled at one thing: russia has mocked west idea of "doing diplomacy" again, again and again. They blatantly lied, tricked, screwed over - and you still believe, that ONLY TALKING will resolve this? I do not believe that "ONLY TALKING" will be enough and yes this is my opinion, which I form based on what I see. That is why I'm saying, that more than talking needs to be done and on sufficient scale. If that does not happen - I believe I need to move somewhere away from putlers russia, because I failed to capitalize both of these names one time too many.

Oh, and in order NOT to keep this so gloomy and so that Vovka would not be overly concerned about sex life of others:
http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/2f5phz/lavrov_russia_is_not_excluded_from_the_g8_its/ Comments deliver!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 04:04:00 pm by Kuujis »

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6131 on: September 01, 2014, 05:17:05 pm »
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Quote
Russia is not excluded from common sense, it just that common sense didn't show up there.
:lol:
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6132 on: September 01, 2014, 09:01:35 pm »
-1
Quote
I believe the scale of these things is ANYTHING, but sufficient. And scale matters in this case.

The scale is hard to read since those informations are not readily available. Its like trying to count ukrainian rebels, russian mercenaries, russian soldiers  :wink:
On the fact itself its pretty well known, but only on internet, I've never been aware of it through the medias. Still, you dont have to dig hard to find that Ukraine has been granted no string attached loans through various western controlled groups.
What do you think a country at war on the brink of chaos will use it for? Even if the money was followed, it would still increase the national budget which will in turn allow for increase in military spending, giving Ukraine a heads up in the current war.

I agree with your statement that equipment and military advisors might be scarce or uncommon, but what I wanted to tell is that it simply exist.
It naturally shows support for Ukraine of the various big actors of the western world. Ukraine is not alone and the proxy war is already a two side battle between east and west. An unbalanced proxy war? Certainly. At least right now.
The few first timid gifts are dated mars 2014... Political/economical/indirect military support is not new.

They may increase the support yet, and become more serious with helping Ukraine, with more transparent military solutions (NATO principally), if they decide so. That I do not deny.


Quote
In addition - what I would like to see and I think is technically and politically feasible (AND I'm ready to waste my tax money on this) is full blown surveillance of separatists via NATO monitoring capabilities (drones, satelites, radio monitoring, etc.) coupled with broad sharing of this data by passing it to Ukraine forces.

Why would they spend trillions of dollars when they can just use lies and deceit like everyone else? Its almost free!  :P



Quote
That is why I'm saying, that more than talking needs to be done and on sufficient scale.

(click to show/hide)



If you believe that Russia trustmeter is any lower than most of the lying sons of a bitch we all call government, you are in your right to be incredibly naive.
Diplomacy can and will be done with Russia or the war will simply continue until someone drop the gauntlets.

Negotiations are already ongoing for the best part of the conflict anyway, I dont see the use in denying.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 09:07:18 pm by Butan »

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6133 on: September 01, 2014, 09:39:42 pm »
+1
Some people are really far away from the reality. What equipment are you talking about? There is not a single assault rifle used by NATO in the hands of Ukrainian soldier. There is not a single NATO APC, tank, helicopter or anything else. The west is very discreet in this question. And with all the NATO weapons you need NATO ammunition which Ukraine doesn't have. So all your bullshit is like Tovi's logic:

Tovi: It's Jerzy Dziewulski, known Polish military instructor, he's commanding Ukrainian army
- : But it's not Jerzy Dziewulski, it's a known Ukrainian general
Tovi: Ok, but Jerzy Dziewulski could be there, Poland is interested in it.

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #6134 on: September 02, 2014, 11:00:26 am »
0
@Butan
There is 2000km border between russia and Ukraine, OSCE observers are in 2 of those. putler and lavrov and their puppet media brazenly say "OSCE IS MONITORING OUR BORDER, they report no armed support, thus there is none". Are you still naive enough to believe this? Even after russia refused to allow for greater monitoring of its borders from russian side (and thats documented in the proceedings of the meeting in OSCE HQ)?

Again - I wanted you to play this game with me, but you somehow casually skipped it ;) I already have zero expectations to hear anything reasonable from our resident russian supporters, but still - "I have a dream", as one guy said it in a speech...

There was a country No1, whose part was thickly inhabited by "nationals" of Country No2. Country No2 decided that it needs to protect its nationals withing Country No1 and annexed part of it. When the leader of Country No2 felt no significant consequences from other countries due to this annexation - he continued to do what ever he wanted, which ended up in a world war.

And the game is: NAME THE COUNTRIES INVOVED.