Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

The mousquetaires again !  But listen to what they say. I can't say they are neutral, but you can't call this russian propaganda.Their testimony is from the battlefield, if it was different from "propaganda" I think they'd come back in France.

1) Ukraine army is demoralized
2) They aim civilian targets
3) They receive instructors from Nato
4) There is no formal military help from Russia

[[ptx]]

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The mousquetaires again !  But listen to what they say. I can't say they are neutral, but you can't call this russian propaganda.Their testimony is from the battlefield, if it was different from "propaganda" I think they'd come back in France.

1) Ukraine army is demoralized
2) They aim civilian targets
3) They receive instructors from Nato
4) There is no formal military help from Russia

My, my, isn't that Tovi, the guy, who, some time ago, was condemning "The West" for sending in mercenaries to aid Ukraine (who, "mysteriously", never appeared :rolleyes: ) and is now gleefully cheering actual, present mercenaries... fighting against Ukraine.
H Y P O C R I S Y - can you spell it? Rhetorical question, of course you can't.

[DaveUKR]

The mousquetaires again !  But listen to what they say. I can't say they are neutral, but you can't call this russian propaganda.Their testimony is from the battlefield, if it was different from "propaganda" I think they'd come back in France.

1) Ukraine army is demoralized
2) They aim civilian targets
3) They receive instructors from Nato
4) There is no formal military help from Russia

Bullshit. I can tell you firsthandly that nothing of mentioned by you is true. I spoke personally to like 15 soldiers/officers who came back or got wounded.

1) Most of them don't speak good about Ukrainian Generals but they're not demoralized
2) Never happened and never would happen. I would smashed your face to a bloody mess for such bullshit if you were next to me. Fucking brainless animal.
3) Just not a single one instruction from NATO. Nobody even heard about any NATO instructors or mercenaries.
4) Everyone, literally everyone from those mentioned 15 said that they were fighting mostly people from Russia, the majority of people who were neutralized by them were citizens of Russian Federation.

I have a bunch of people whom I know for a long time fighting currently on the East of Ukraine. Everyone says that artillery fires from the territory of Russian Federation, and they actually complain about it because they can't fire back. So shut your fucking mouth you piece of fuck, you're really getting annoying with your crap so that I want to beat the shit out of you.

[DonNicko]

Bullshit. I can tell you firsthandly that nothing of mentioned by you is true. I spoke personally to like 15 soldiers/officers who came back or got wounded.

1) Most of them don't speak good about Ukrainian Generals but they're not demoralized
2) Never happened and never would happen. I would smashed your face to a bloody mess for such bullshit if you were next to me. Fucking brainless animal.
3) Just not a single one instruction from NATO. Nobody even heard about any NATO instructors or mercenaries.
4) Everyone, literally everyone from those mentioned 15 said that they were fighting mostly people from Russia, the majority of people who were neutralized by them were citizens of Russian Federation.

I have a bunch of people whom I know for a long time fighting currently on the East of Ukraine. Everyone says that artillery fires from the territory of Russian Federation, and they actually complain about it because they can't fire back. So shut your fucking mouth you piece of fuck, you're really getting annoying with your crap so that I want to beat the shit out of you.

Dave do you think that national guard especially batalion Aidar didn't shot civilians? I don't say about ukranian army but maybe. About russian artillery, I think that they did it, but I can say that ukranian army also fired on the territory of Russia.

[serr]

Dave do you think that national guard especially batalion Aidar didn't shot civilians?

Nicko, do you think that national guard, especially batalion Aidar has heavy armament, especially artillery?
Small clarification, I'm sure that our army shot civilians, that happenes when your enemy hide behind civilians and shoot at you. But our army didn't aim at civilians. I think the difference is clear.

I can say that ukranian army also fired on the territory of Russia.

Do you have any idea why? Or is it just good tradition for neighbors of Russia to fire on its territory, started by Finland in 39?

[DaveUKR]

Dave do you think that national guard especially batalion Aidar didn't shot civilians? I don't say about ukranian army but maybe. About russian artillery, I think that they did it, but I can say that ukranian army also fired on the territory of Russia.

I have nor friends neither even people I know fighting in National Guard, those mentioned in the last post are from regular army. But I highly doubt it, first of all as Serr mentioned - these battalions don't have any heavy weaponry. Second even if there are retards in National Guard (and there are, idiots and bastards are everywhere, you can't avoid it) there are also decent soldiers and officers who wouldn't let it.

About artillery: I didn't hear any single proven fact of Ukrainian military forces shooting towards the territory of Russia or maybe you consider Donetsk and Lugansk as Russian territory already. On the other hand I heard from those mentioned people about constant shootings, sometimes during multiple hours a day.

[pepejul]

The one with moustache on video is french neochocolate chip cookie !

[DonNicko]

I have nor friends neither even people I know fighting in National Guard, those mentioned in the last post are from regular army. But I highly doubt it, first of all as Serr mentioned - these battalions don't have any heavy weaponry. Second even if there are retards in National Guard (and there are, idiots and bastards are everywhere, you can't avoid it) there are also decent soldiers and officers who wouldn't let it.

About artillery: I didn't hear any single proven fact of Ukrainian military forces shooting towards the territory of Russia or maybe you consider Donetsk and Lugansk as Russian territory already. On the other hand I heard from those mentioned people about constant shootings, sometimes during multiple hours a day.

If national guard doesn't have any heavy weaponry then who fires the living houses, busstops and roads? Batalion Aidar robbed civilians, OSCE said it. About facts there is some near borders where russian journalists were fired, that was on russian territory. But I also heard from militaries that there is some bombs that flew to the territory of Russia, maybe by mistake.

[Butan]

Dave, its good to hear your testimony, but saying "I asked my friends and they said:..." isnt equal to "there is no X thing happening".
Tovi presented a video where few foreign mercenaries that also gave their own opinion on what they see/hear/think.

You think your friends are better than those guys at stating the truth?


I think DonNicko is the much closer to the truth: as you said Dave, you cant avoid idiots in the army, but I'm pretty sure there is a few "unruly groups" in your army that are known for being "over the top idiots". I dont know any other name than Azov battalion, now DonNicko add Aidar battalion. How many irregulars far-right extremists are used by Ukraine government? I dont know, but there is, and they arent fighting by the rules.
I think except those irregular extremists, and extreme nutcases, there must not be any direct civilian shooting, but what is sure is that everyone is more or less fighting in civilian areas and it always means casualties.


It is known that Ukraine already fired on the territory of Russia, I dont believe its useful to try to deny it, as much as Russia having fired onto Ukraine.
Pretty sure there is some "alleged foreign artillery fire" that are just baseless accusations too, its hard to tell who fires who when it comes from 10km away!
The scale of the military interference is still not precisely known, it seems its not big enough to expose to direct retaliation from one side or the other, but there is always the threat of escalation.

Add on top the information war, and then "what the hell is happening exactly" is what everyone ask first before clinging to their good old reflex of west VS east.



Please Tovi dont be irrespectful to Ukraine showing videos of people fighting against it and being happy about it.
Dave dont become angry on your keyboard its not useful.

[Thomek]

OMFG. Guys..

You are being fed propaganda from a state that have ALWAYS fed the population lies since almost 100 years.

Why on earth do you suddenly believe in it now? When RF population have a long history of NOT believing it?

There is no more NeoNa*z*is in UKR than there are in Russia, and those that are in UKR are mostly anti Russian, because they feel SORE AFTER RUSSIA HAS FUCKED THEM IN THE ASS FOR CENTURIES. They are young, they had enough, they are not intelligent, and they join the toughest most masculine group there is, where they can fight for Ukrainian freedom, and hate gays at the same time. It's not very hard to understand why.

meanwhile in Russia:
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......

When an actual witness who lives in Ukraine, who has personal friends in UKR army comes out to tell what he heard, you say he's further from the truth than your RT truth or Pravda??

Wtf is wrong with you guys?

[serr]

You think your friends are better than those guys at stating the truth?

I think pretty much everyone is better at stating the truth than guys who said that they follow Dugin's ideas

I think DonNicko is the much closer to the truth: as you said Dave, you cant avoid idiots in the army, but I'm pretty sure there is a few "unruly groups" in your army that are known for being "over the top idiots". I dont know any other name than Azov battalion, now DonNicko add Aidar battalion. How many irregulars far-right extremists are used by Ukraine government? I dont know, but there is, and they arent fighting by the rules.

There are more volunteers batallions, but Azov is the only one with right-wing ideology. Also, as we said before, none of them has artillery - they can't shell cities.

It is known that Ukraine already fired on the territory of Russia, I dont believe its useful to try to deny it, as much as Russia having fired onto Ukraine.

Really? Why? I saw proofs that russian territory was shelled, but nothing that would make me think that it was done by Ukraine.

[Vovka]

Bullshit. I can tell you firsthandly that nothing of mentioned by you is true. I spoke personally to like 15 soldiers/officers who came back or got wounded.

 Среди этих друзей нет случайно Ничепарук Вячеслава Леонидовича? ))

When an actual witness who lives in Ukraine, who has personal friends in UKR army comes out to tell what he heard, you say he's further from the truth than your RT truth or Pravda??
Wtf is wrong with you guys?

I like your faith in men. The man ran into difficulties in the first place comes up with reasons for their failures. So instead of collective farmers and miners appear "professional commandos of Russia" (look at those 10 who are caught, most of them signed a contract a month ago). I do not think that psychologically healthy person iwill tell how they bombed residential areas (and most likely each artillery crew once got shelled civilian , because all artillery since Soviet times and high probability of error due to the lack of training of recruits, for example, only because of the air temperature range with the same angle of pickup may differ by 1 km.) not sure but reports of "shelling phosphorous bombs" came a month after the first shelling. (in fact it's probably illumination shells, which were used as sighting). Prior to this are targeting with live ammunition (paradox but these lights have caused the same damage as the battle).

That is I mean, if one day, a ne.o-Na.zi skinhead nig.ger catch you in a dark alley, will smash your face and fucke.d hard u in the ass,
it is likely that you will tell your friends the following: you protected the girl from the bandits and then after you have had a cool sex.

[Kuujis]

This is the sad reality and pretty much sums up what I think:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/arm-ukraine-or-surrender.html?referrer=&_r=0

And for the record - I think West cannot allow another defeat 

You know, after this shit putler made up - either one has to be a moron-sheep-die-hard-russian-imperialist or a coward or one should simply wake up and say "enough is enough" to your government. The fact, that I don't see this happening is speaking volumes.

Also, any of the "informed ones" care to explain, how russia is "not intervening", but is explaining to Ukraine that it should start "discussing novorussia statehood" (btw - what the fuck is that? they stated their nationality obviously, whats with the sudden "new" statehood?)

[Vovka]

This is the sad reality and pretty much sums up what I think:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/opinion/arm-ukraine-or-surrender.html?referrer=&_r=0

And for the record - I think West cannot allow another defeat 

You know, after this shit putler made up - either one has to be a moron-sheep-die-hard-russian-imperialist or a coward or one should simply wake up and say "enough is enough" to your government. The fact, that I don't see this happening is speaking volumes.

When the Russian Federation will come to your country, it's your fault, you are too often used the word "Putler"

[Kuujis]

When the Russian Federation will come to your country, it's your fault, you are too often used the word "Putler"

Well at least you capitalize it... I have a hard time capitalizing russia or putler now.