Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Butan]

I believe it's because the parliament is still the same one that voted the last Yanukovitch laws (by the way it's very strange that this "fascist coup"  did not dissolve the previous parliament at gunpoint instantly). That makes it very complicated to have a functioning country.

If my memory is correct, Serr had said that, before changing to an earlier constitution of Ukraine, most of the deputies that were at power under the wing of Yanukovitch mandate basically switched sides and mass joined other parliamentary groups, created new ones, etc. to keep their seat.

I applaud the dissolving if only to eject those obviously hypocrite and undeserving people.
But I also know that by that move, most of the still russian-friendly deputies will be removed and replaced with anti-russians which will vote yes to everything that Poroshenko and the war enthusiasts will propose.
Not good for a negotiation sortie of the crisis.

Does anyone still think RT is not biased to the point of fabrication? Udar and Svoboda have less than one third of the seats of the majority in the current parliament, and suddenly it's a ruling coalition of Svoboda and Udar.

Yes, the "ruling" part is not true.

[Thomek]

I get what you are saying Murmi, but I'm telling you Russia is way way worse than NATO.

It's simply not a comparison. You are Finnish if I recall, right? Well then it's not far away.. To feel better about themselves they blame the west for their miserable society, while in fact the SU rotted from within, before massive corruption set it. Anyone from that era can testify the system was absurd and didn't work very well. (Still, yes many had a better life than now or in the 90's). Putin is playing those strings in big russian hearts like a pro virtuoso.

I've been raised on propaganda from both sides, my father was editor of the soviet commie newspaper..    but I didn't want to pick a side until I saw myself, and the bitter truth is that it simply sucks. It's a hard society where people don't give jack shit about each other. People are wearing at least 3 faces. Power=Money on an everyday in-your-face basis. I've never seen such huge shameless displays of wealth next to heart-breaking powerty. The country is WOUNDED for fuck sake. Their pride, their justice, their economy, their people. In this confusion Putin comes in and tells people "the story" straight. What they want to hear. Becomes what they want to see. Restores the pride they so dearly miss, letting all russians smell the only thing more powerful than the ruble; Power.

The commenters from the Baltics in here have a knee-jerk anti-russianness over them, and I don't blame them, although I do think they are a bit blinded and naive regarding the west. For them, NATO is an insurance. Without it, RF would conquer and bully them just like they did and do with Ukraine. That's why Ukraine has a hard on for NATO. It's not NATO that has a hard on for them.

It's nice to sit online and read articles and make an opinion. I do it too, but I do it on the basis of my learned lessons and conversations with my russian friends and actually visiting there invited by a state institution.

So please Murmi. Don't compare Russian and the west as equals like in some giant game of Risk. There is a difference, and it's all about that our system is simply vastly better than theirs. Think Financial crisis was bad? Go east and take a look. Financial crisis is peanuts, and nothing they can't print their way out of lol. Because there might be fundamentally wrong things about western economy, but other economies are fundamentally much much worse.

[Swaggart]

Just a little point about Russia and NATO.

When the USSR dissolved Russia actually wanted to join NATO and do the whole Europe thing. Europe was on board and why wouldn't they be? Trade in a former enemy for a future friend. But the US was dead set against it and continued policies that isolated it geopolitically, namely by expanding NATO eastward even though there was an understanding that it wouldn't.

So yeah, Russia sees NATO as an enemy because NATO still sees Russia as an enemy. And the wonderful cycle of mutually assured destruction continues.

[Tibe]

Thats actually a fair point. Havent really looked into it. But I highly doubt entire Europe was on board. And that was 1954 or smthing? But thats basically during the time(or only few years after) Soviets were still basically slaughtering a shitton of its own people and kicking the native inhabitants of the counqured countries into Siberia and replaced them with people of russian heritage. No wounder they didnt want someone like SU in their ranks. And I highly doubt all the countries that SU owned could have gained independence by now if it had joined NATO. Cause some of those countries gained indepencence thanks to Western pressure, which they could have not done if they were in the league with the Soviets. Mybe in this case US did right? Russia wasnt denied the right to join NATO, Soviet Union was.

And dunno, havent really found any info that they tried to join it after the USSR. Even if they did im quessing its not only US that was against it but the enitre eastern European part of the alliance aswell.

[Kuujis]

(click to show/hide)

Yeah, national sovereignty is certainly catchier than "local despotism", because without national sovereignty there is no national identity. When a nation is broken down from the national level its divided into ethnicity, religion, culture and so forth, and unfortunately these aspects in many places around the world are far more divisive than they would be in the Western societies we're accustomed to. Just look what NATO achieved after denying Libya the right to be ruled by its own people, after the West decided who would be allowed to rule Libya we now see the nation in ruins, one that's now rampant with murder, infighting and that's become a jihadist stronghold. One size does not fit all, to have such a mentality is to view our own politics with rose tinted glasses as though every person around the globe holds the same ideals and goals in life that many Westerners do and to think that non-Western countries can be ruled by Western style governments is fantasy. It doesn't work, much of the world is not nearly as developed as the West and therefore the Western model simply does not fit. Every government installed by the West has been rotten and corrupt to the core, you cannot change a leopards spots by throwing dollars at it.

Clearly it is NATO that seeks to meddle with Russian, Iranian, Chinese and other states interests, it is NATO members that are surrounding states with military bases and missile "shields", it is NATO membership that's growing and encroaching on Russian borders, how can you blame the victims and excuse the aggressors Kafeine? (Kind of a silly question, I've made many points about emotionally charged western propaganda encouraging people to form likewise opinions.)

If NATO wiped away its apparently "respectable", "humanitarian" façade then they would easily become an easily exploited target by the free press (what little of it remains), and its geopolitical rivals. The main reason Brazil is largely ignored right now is down to plain old geopolitics. The regions in which NATO interfere the most are regions in which its rival states have natural regional enemies and opponents from which NATO can exploit and manipulate. (In the far East, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and others), (In Europe, Poland, Ukraine, Estonia, Finland, and others), (In Middle-East, Turkey, Saudi-Arabia, Qatar and others). NATO needs to legitimise itself and its actions through formations of multilateral groups of nations and interests, it needs a smoke screen to excuse its actions for without it can easily be accused of being the very threat it purports to keep in check. NATO's goals are purely geopolitical and unipolar in nature with the guise of multilateralism, if it actually upheld the democratic principles you think it does then why does it all too often side with "despots" and "dicatators" when it suits its agenda? Because when you focus on who NATO gets into bed with, you realise how NATO itself has undermined its own purported principles of democracy and humanitarianism and this should set off alarm bells in the minds of anyone who views NATO through rose tinted glasses.

I have a new description for you, besides a "liar". ISOLATIONIST!

Where has NATO waged aggressive war in the past? Which country was accepted into NATO without its overwhelming internal eagerness coupled with existing NATO members approval? You are not comparing apples and oranges, you are comparing potatoes and whales. As MULTIPLE people already wrote to you and you STILL fail to hear - Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia would have russian "peace makers" (instead of keepers) in their respective countries in NO TIME, if it was not for NATO, which is basically the main stability guarantee in the region currently.

Also - sorry to dissapoint all the russian imperialists - but EVERY neighbor has a right to choose what he wants to do, your "interests" and "making of politics" should end at your doorsteps. Exporting it at a point of gun/tank is bullshit, which is what currently is happening in Ukraine. It makes my head hurt, reading how russia is a victim of NATO, which is doing what it is supposed to do (i.e. ensure defence). Now that russia has showed it has ZERO respect or willingness to follow their international treaties and agreements - russia IS making a potential enemy of itself, its NOT NATO's doing.

Me personally - I'm "naive" about west only because I saw what east looks like. I would rather be semi-puppet in west, than a poor-sheep in the east. You can bark all you want at the west and their corrupt/idiotic governments, but at least you CAN do that. In putlers russia - government tells you via the owned media at who you should bark.

In retrospect - what I would LIKE to see is US/EU funded russian speaking channels for alternate news, because currently guys like Tovi, Butan can form an "unbiased" oppinion about the situation, while the only-russian speaking russian population cannot and thus become sheep.

On topic:a question to our russian readers - how does putlers media spin this: http://uapress.info/ru/news/show/36341/ (for the non-readers - this supposedly is a list of 7 of the 10 captured russian soldiers in Ukraine coupled with their social network accounts and pictures for identification).

[Molly]

Murmi replaced Tovi's NWO with NATO. I still think Tovi was funnier to read tho. There was room for speculation if he was actually serious or not.
Murmi on the other hand... he actually seems to believe his own nonsense. Makes it more scary than funny

[Tibe]

No! It is us who are wrong, for we have been brainwashed by nato.

[Molly]

Yep, guess it's that way around. My fault... damn me and my mainstream-media washed, emotionally opinion forming, useless brain

[Vovka]

No! It is us who are wrong, for we have been brainwashed by nato.

Yep, guess it's that way around. My fault... damn me and my mainstream-media washed, emotionally opinion forming, useless brain

it's not media's or nato's fault, just u are too old to take a new look at life   

[Tibe]

Ye, obviously 5 year olds clearly have an age advantage on world order and politics.

[Kuujis]

http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/2elyb9/russian_ministry_of_defense_soldiers_have_crossed/
Russia to the world: Borders are hard.
 

[Molly]

http://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/2elyb9/russian_ministry_of_defense_soldiers_have_crossed/
Russia to the world: Borders are hard.
 

English link:

http://en.itar-tass.com/

Borders are hard when seen as something fluidic... flowing, not strict.

I love the comments on reddit tho:

"That's why you don't drink and border."

Oh, just like you accidentally cross into our (Finnish) border now and then with your fighter jets? I call bullshit onto this one.

 
You can't do that by accident, you can tell you are in Finland because your surroundings are clean and tidy.


Nonono, remember Crimea? That was Russian territory all along right? It was just Ukraine that had borrowed it, same goes with Finland, that territory belongs to Russia, and Bulgaria too, and Romania (no, wait, screw those guys) Hungary and Czechoslovakia aaaand... (Do we want east Germany? I've heard those guys are chocolate chip cookies, lets just settle for good ol' Poland instead) aaaand Poland.

[Tibe]

Ah! Well this makes sense! Russian artillery got lost and accidentally shelled into Ukraine soldiers. Russian insurgents got lost and accidentally took over part of Ukraine. Then there is all that Russian money and military equipment constantly getting lost all the time. /s

Well I quess shit happens...

[Molly]

"They are just people, you know"
"Well, but it happens quite a lot lately."
"I guess they are just more people than the other people."

[Xant]

Everybody here believes you are the most annoying person they have ever interacted with.

People don't like being proven wrong. But I'll have to do that again, I'm afraid: Murmillus just said you're the most annoying person. Ba-zing.