Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Falka]

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[Tovi]

Well Russian sailors were there to collect the first before this even happened. So hardly surprising your country delivered it 

Whether they will get the others is another matter.

To justify a cancel of the sale, Obama must give more reliable proof of Russian involvment in the conflict. If you do not consider the Crimea annexion, of course.

I'd like to mention a point : next 18 september 2014, Scotland will decide if they remain in the UK or become an independant country . That sounds really unbelievebale, because i'm sure that if they choose independance it will be done peacefully. And it was the same for most ex-USSR countries.
So, yes, it's possible to declare an independance peacefully after a referendum. But, obviously, not in Ukraine. Why ?
Dave will probably disagree, but IMO, it's simply because this gvt is led by nationalists and extremists.
If a part of your population wants to leave, just let them go, don't kill them. It's a nonsense in Europa in 2014.

[DaveUKR]

To justify a cancel of the sale, Obama must give more reliable proof of Russian involvment in the conflict. If you do not consider the Crimea annexion, of course.

I'd like to mention a point : next 18 september 2014, Scotland will decide if they remain in the UK or become an independant country . That sounds really unbelievebale, because i'm sure that if they choose independance it will be done peacefully. And it was the same for most ex-USSR countries.
So, yes, it's possible to declare an independance peacefully after a referendum. But, obviously, not in Ukraine. Why ?
Dave will probably disagree, but IMO, it's simply because this gvt is led by nationalists and extremists.
If a part of your population wants to leave, just let them go, don't kill them. It's a nonsense in Europa in 2014.

We can all disagree in some things in this thread, but I believe that we can all agree that you're one of the biggest retards crpg has ever had

[DonNicko]

OMG USA don't have shots from satellite, pitty

[Tovi]

We can all disagree in some things in this thread, but I believe that we can all agree that you're one of the biggest retards crpg has ever had

Yes, probably because playing a violent game doesn't makes me violent IRL.

If you consider insults as a sign of intelligence, you are in good company here.

[Kuujis]

To justify a cancel of the sale, Obama must give more reliable proof of Russian involvment in the conflict. If you do not consider the Crimea annexion, of course.

I'd like to mention a point : next 18 september 2014, Scotland will decide if they remain in the UK or become an independant country . That sounds really unbelievebale, because i'm sure that if they choose independance it will be done peacefully. And it was the same for most ex-USSR countries.
So, yes, it's possible to declare an independance peacefully after a referendum. But, obviously, not in Ukraine. Why ?
Dave will probably disagree, but IMO, it's simply because this gvt is led by nationalists and extremists.
If a part of your population wants to leave, just let them go, don't kill them. It's a nonsense in Europa in 2014.

Yes, Scotland is a nice example of how separatists FIRST take weapons from *MAGIC* sources (not those underwarted creatures, who resell russian shit ofc), occupy the fuck out of administrative buildings and do a sham wannabe "referendums" which even their aquatic friends refuse to acknowledge. yeahh... Comparable cases. Not.

Now THIS "And it was the same for most ex-USSR countries." is a bullshit of totally different category. You were not here, you do not know how my independence was TAKEN BACK from USSR so shut the fuck up about it happening peacefully. It was declared peacefully and then the commies tried to capture our media, government and even printing house buildings in order to "establish peace", which ended up in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events_%28Lithuania%29. Learn your fucking history, then come preaching.

If a part of your population wants to leave, just let them go, don't kill them. It's a nonsense in Europa in 2014. Once the people living in a flat you rent decide that your rent conditions suck and they would rather have the flat for themselves, then promptly deciding they need your neighbor as "their" flats owner, because "fuck you, we had a vote with ~1 or 2 out of 5 people living in the flat participating"... Yeah...

[Xant]

By replying to Tovi, you are part of the problem, Kuujis. And I see his post because of your quote.

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[Falka]

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[Oberyn]

And deluded conspiracy theorists discuss events that happen only in their fevered imaginations, which shapes their ideas. If that quote was supposed to be in support of Tovi, I see no interest further debating some Loose Change caliber retard or pretending his interpretation of events are worth discussing. Every time he's been proven wrong or shown that his "evidence" was erroneous he never aknowledges it then returns with yet another ridiculous whopper gleaned from the usual internet conspiracy rags. Not one original thought, just blatant confirmation bias out the ass.

[Christo]

Cheap entertainment, but I like it.

The way this guy connects everything that is happening just because.. well he can connect them because reasons, and of course everything is a flashpoint for WW3  Truly batshit crazy.

[Kuujis]

By replying to Tovi, you are part of the problem, Kuujis. And I see his post because of your quote.

Sowwyy...

Not something new, but something interesting:
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=pl&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,16355167,Epidemia_naglych_smierci_wsrod_rosyjskich_komandosow_.html&usg=ALkJrhgTVTPtrWd1lUnww---5QZH3uCdoA#Cuk

[Overdriven]

So, yes, it's possible to declare an independance peacefully after a referendum. But, obviously, not in Ukraine. Why ?

If they had held a referendum legally, the way that Scotland are holding there's, then no one in this thread could question it.

It's taken years of planning and discussion to even get to this point. Even then it's been a significant length of time since the referendum was announced (as in over 1 year).

Taking control of a state and bullying into a rushed referendum in a matter of days/weeks is not legitimate. If the Cirmea had not had Russian backing then that would never have gone ahead as they would have been absolutely fucked come independence if it had even voted that way.

[Falka]

And deluded conspiracy theorists discuss events that happen only in their fevered imaginations, which shapes their ideas. If that quote was supposed to be in support of Tovi,

What? I just thought it's another temple of spam thread.

[Kafein]

I expect Russian opinion to go even more hurrdurr now that the few remaining intellectuals flee in droves.

[Tovi]

Yes, Scotland is a nice example of how separatists FIRST take weapons from *MAGIC* sources (not those underwarted creatures, who resell russian shit ofc), occupy the fuck out of administrative buildings and do a sham wannabe "referendums" which even their aquatic friends refuse to acknowledge. yeahh... Comparable cases. Not.

Now THIS "And it was the same for most ex-USSR countries." is a bullshit of totally different category. You were not here, you do not know how my independence was TAKEN BACK from USSR so shut the fuck up about it happening peacefully. It was declared peacefully and then the commies tried to capture our media, government and even printing house buildings in order to "establish peace", which ended up in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events_%28Lithuania%29. Learn your fucking history, then come preaching.

If a part of your population wants to leave, just let them go, don't kill them. It's a nonsense in Europa in 2014. Once the people living in a flat you rent decide that your rent conditions suck and they would rather have the flat for themselves, then promptly deciding they need your neighbor as "their" flats owner, because "fuck you, we had a vote with ~1 or 2 out of 5 people living in the flat participating"... Yeah...

What's your country ? Lithuania ? That's why I've said "most ex-USSR countries", not all. Because of Chechenya too. But, do you approve what Russia did at this time ? So why do you approve what Ukraine do now ?
Worst, you try to justify war and civilian killings. Your hate of Russia just makes you blind.

Kiev just don't want any referendum for independance. Peacefully or not. They don't even want to discuss of it.
The right of nations to self-determination doesn't apply when it's not in our interest. What is possible recently in South Sudan is impossible in Ukraine ? How can you force people to live together with the gun on their head?


Note : 2 SU25 have been shot down by rebels near Donetsk yesterday. At least they can't deny they still have AA weapons.