Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Xant]

That's how I identify propaganda brainwashing, and that's why I stay.

Yet more impeccable logic here, brought to you by Tovi. "you are brainwashed, ergo I stay here to be insulted." That's how I identify a retard, Tovi. You, in case you were wondering.

Also way to never bring up the 1000 things again where you've been provably wrong, Tovi. You've dropped a hundred things you've brought up all of a sudden when people show you're wrong, and then you show up a day later to post more bullshit, stay classy.

[Tovi]

Just give me an exemple.

[Xant]

Just give me an exemple.

http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/meanwhile-in-ukraine/msg1043723/#msg1043723

http://forum.melee.org/general-off-topic/meanwhile-in-ukraine/msg1043066/#msg1043066

[Tibe]

Tovi, you are the one whose reading sources that are specifically made for propaganda and brainwashing, not sources that are ment to inform.

[Tovi]

Do you really feel informed ? So why can't you tell anything that I already know ?

@xant : I've never said I was in Ukraine. And in France we dont make much difference between "sovietic" and "communist". Officialy, France is actually under a socialist government. I could play with words and say better than you what a socialist country is.
 I don't know how old is Dave, but I knew the communist propaganda during the Cold War, when I was young. I can make the difference.

[Christo]

Do you really feel informed ? So why can't you tell anything that I already know ?

Hah, anybody can act like that with another google and wikipedia tab opened, you know.

[Tovi]

Why can't you admit that most of main media just repeat what politicians say ? Last days they don't even talk about situation in Ukraine until that plane crashed.
All we can hear is " Sepratists = terrorists" and "Obama blame Putin for supporting rebellion". That's not what I call "be informed".

[Leesin]

Tovi is like a turd that just wont flush

[Tibe]

What do you call informed than? "Separatist=heroes"? "Ukraine is to blame for everything"? What?

[Dark_Blade]

Honestly there isnt anymore information needed to be sure that the separatists did it. The leader bragged it himself that they shot a plane down 20 minutes before the news got out that a civilian plane had crashed. It wasnt a Ukrainian plane or anyone elses, so it was definately that plane. The leader deleted his statements right at the moment when they found out it was civilian. Like thats gonna do any good.

And I think Butan has just lost it by now. He has been wrong so much that the pressure of his wrongness is making him splat more random stuff in this thread with increased rage.

well the question is what the fuck is this plane and what the hell it was doing there. i am almost sure it was provocation to:
variant 1:
give even worse name to separatists and russia
variant 2:
to end all this shit with the reason "enough civilians got killed in all this. since now this became not a local but global problem because complitelly inocent people died because of it" 

[DonNicko]

Honestly there isnt anymore information needed to be sure that the separatists did it.

Some times I think you don't need any information

Well the black boxes are taken to Moscow.

Ukraine didnt bomb its own population. The cities are quite intact. It bombed the insurgents positions. Unfortunately there are always also civilians around. Why would Ukr bomb its own cities?

You know you wouldnt be so pro-russian yourself if you knew the facts.

Cant russian armies just sit the fuck down and drink vodka? How bloody hard is it to not invade shit? Seriuslly....

the fact that tanks were seen crossing the border from Russia into Ukraine.

On maidan 100 people died cause the corrupt president didnt give up his seat and gave the order to shoot at the protesters and he was backed by Russia and he is still backed by Russia. In Odessa 48 were killed and "were disapeared" because the pro-russian separatists went on a lootingspree, which was "not backed by russia" as your officials claim.

They really do. Western history may slightly bend the actual facts, but russian historians downright fabricate it out of their asses.

You are so sure)

[Tibe]

How could it have been provocation when it was just an average plane with average passengers inside traveling the same route as it always did? It would have been a provocation when lets say someone told the pilots to switch routes to specifically to travel into the separatist area. But flying through eastern-Ukraine had always been part of its route. So this was basically planned by noone as some kind of provocation considering the fact that it is AN AVERAGE FLIGHTROUTE.

(click to show/hide)

Some times I think you don't need any information
You are so sure)

I dont get it... There is info on all of this.

[DonNicko]

I dont get it... There is info on all of this.

Don't worry that was just trolling, smbd will get it)

[Xant]

@xant : I've never said I was in Ukraine. And in France we dont make much difference between "sovietic" and "communist". Officialy, France is actually under a socialist government. I could play with words and say better than you what a socialist country is.
 I don't know how old is Dave, but I knew the communist propaganda during the Cold War, when I was young. I can make the difference.

Whatever you're on, I would dearly like to sample it. Who the fuck claimed you said you were in Ukraine?

So how about showing some proof that map you posted is from the French military?

[Turkhammer]

well the question is what the fuck is this plane and what the hell it was doing there. i am almost sure it was provocation to:
variant 1:
give even worse name to separatists and russia
variant 2:
to end all this shit with the reason "enough civilians got killed in all this. since now this became not a local but global problem because complitelly inocent people died because of it"

Are you that stupid?  That plane was one of hundreds that flew that exact route during the months this conflict has been going on.  And now you say the one that got shot down is a planned provocation?

The plain truth of the matter is that the Russian proxy forces in eastern Ukraine had only the BUK battery with just the homing radar on the missiles.  They just switched that on and off (so as not to be detected) until they spotted a target, and then launched.   They did not have the ancillary vehicles with search radar which would have allowed them to distinguish the plane from a distance and give them enough time to try to determine if it was a scheduled flight or not.  The Russian proxy forces were anxious to shoot down another Ukrainian military flight and they fucked up...big time.