Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

No, I just say it's a good thing to knwo about these international organizations.
Snowden won't never have the Nobel's Prize, for exemple, but Obama do. The guy who shot people in the head for "justice", who kill children with drones etc. But it's ok.
Knowing some things gives another reading grid of international events.

[Kuujis]

No, I just say it's a good thing to knwo about these international organizations.
Snowden won't never have the Nobel's Prize, for exemple, but Obama do. The guy who shot people in the head for "justice", who kill children with drones etc. But it's ok.
Knowing some things gives another reading grid of international events.

This is a very slippery slope you are threading on. E.g. why would you trust a country which betrayed their treaty, whose leader semi-nationalized their media and why would you trust that semi-nationlized media, which was consistently proven to lie again and again?

BUT - you refuse to believe a report by an organization known for standing up for things they believe in?

The same putler gave the orders to bomb the fuck out of Grozno during the its siege in 1999, killing thousands of civilians in the process and now he is suddenly the good guy who knows whats best for neighboring country (like - opening borders for arms trafficing thru and thru)?

When do you plan to wake up?

[Tovi]

You seems to think that only russian media talk about the situation in Ukraine. But I read many different sources from different countries. Including Ukrainian people too.
In my post I showed a BBC journalist, different german newspapers and TV, french media/blog/analysis etc.
And I study geopolitic since many years, not suddenly with Ukraine events.

[Butan]

When did Tovi said he didnt believe in the concerned report?

And its common knowledge that not all NGO are independant, some do have political agenda and cant be fully trusted... its a bit like most newspapers : some are politically engaged, a very few (at least, in France) are reporting events that sheds light on ALL misdeeds, not just a select few which bothers a particular side of the fence.

[Kuujis]

You seems to think that only russian media talk about the situation in Ukraine. But I read many different sources from different countries. Including Ukrainian people too.
In my post I showed a BBC journalist, different german newspapers and TV, french media/blog/analysis etc.
And I study geopolitic since many years, not suddenly with Ukraine events.

Ok, I see... So, our dear friend, who "study geopolitic since many years" - pray tell me, why do we see 3 countries, which were fucked up by russia in one way or another (with equally fucked up end results though - russian troops occupying foreign territories), all trying to move west, instead of falling in love with the all-caring, all-nice, all-friendly salv-world-nation of mother russia?

When did Tovi said he didnt believe in the concerned report?

And its common knowledge that not all NGO are independant, some do have political agenda and cant be fully trusted... its a bit like most newspapers : some are politically engaged, a very few (at least, in France) are reporting events that sheds light on ALL misdeeds, not just a select few which bothers a particular side of the fence.

Quote from: Tovi on July 11, 2014, 06:08:46 pm
    Amnesty International is very rich. Main donators :
    (click to show/hide)
    This NGO is have strong links with the United States Department of State. Suzanne Nossel, his CEO comes directly from the Department of State, for exemple.
    Just to say.

And to you personally Butan - try to SAY what you mean,, instead of backtracking "where did I say this or that". You have no idea whether Amnesty International is trust worthy? Say so. You think this particular report we were discussing is not trustworthy? SAY so. And say WHY you think so. Otherwise you sound like a blond hipster, who just wants to object and is unable to do any conclusions. Or even wors "must trust russian media, because they know best, because they are on the ground and there are no other news agencies there"...

"common knowledge that not all NGO"... what the fuck is this statement about?

[Butan]

You accuse others of saying things they did not, you assume that it means something that they didnt even thought and procede to argue that they are not thinking properly.

I'm not going to ask you to mind your manners, it would be useless after a hundred pages full of caps name calling; I'm going to ask you to read properly before speaking.

[Kuujis]

You accuse others of saying things they did not, you assume that it means something that they didnt even thought and procede to argue that they are not thinking properly.

I'm not going to ask you to mind your manners, it would be useless after a hundred pages full of caps name calling; I'm going to ask you to read properly before speaking.

OK... lets see, in the context of discussing validity of the report by Amnesty International regarding kidnappings and torture in Ukraine during this crisis and knowing Tovi's previous "anti-imperialims/NWO" comments - what meaning would you interpret from this text:
Quote from: Tovi on July 11, 2014, 06:08:46 pm
    Amnesty International is very rich. Main donators :
    (click to show/hide)
    This NGO is have strong links with the United States Department of State. Suzanne Nossel, his CEO comes directly from the Department of State, for exemple.
    Just to say.

I'm at a fucking loss

Also, for the record - I would choose manners instead of being polit-correct almost any time. So again - say what you want to say, motivate and be done with it. If you want to send someone to hell - be my fucking guest. We already have enough politicians talking abstract polite bullshit like "common knowledge that not all NGO... bla bla bla".

For a SECOND item to be on the record - I fucking stand by my statement, that a person who "must trust" (not my words ) putlers media is NOT thinking properly.

[Rogue]

My new favourite:

http://new-rus.info/news/ukraine_new_provider_of_human_organs/2014-07-07-118
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/angeblicher-organhandel-russische-propaganda-gegen-deutsch-ukrainerin-a-980304.html

The little detail that the poor women is a mathematician and not a doctor of medicine and her involvement in the conflict in Ukraine is limited to being of Ukrainian origin and posting a picture of her face in the Ukrainian national colours is of course of little importance. How can crap like this get all serious prime time coverage.

The only indisputable fact in this entire mess is that the biggest losers will be the ones stuck in the gangrenous pit that is Putin-Russia.

I admire your tenacity Midreek 

[Chosen1]

[Tovi]

This video is a pretty good description of the situation.
It's not a question of blindly trust russian media.Even under Kremlin influence  they are actually in a strategy of truth telling, wich is very interesting. Not because they suddenly love the truth but because this is the only strategy to counter the US soft power.

About economical situation in eastern Europa. You must think in long term. In the past, Russia was ruined, and has no capacity to help anybody. Now, with oil benefits, they have no more debts and his economy will rise in the next decades. Because mineral ressources will become rare and expensive, EU will face big problems.

[serr]

It's not a question of blindly trust russian media.Even under Kremlin influence  they are actually in a strategy of truth telling, wich is very interesting. Not because they suddenly love the truth but because this is the only strategy to counter the US soft power.

You get +1 from me for this

Last thing I heard from russian media was their interview several days ago with some refugee from Sloviansk who told that ukrainian soldiers gathered local residents on main square, crucified small boy like Jesus so he suffered from pain for two hours until he finally died, then tied his mother to tank and dragged her around the square 3 times.

And that's not some non-mainstream conspirology resource you love, that's "mainstream" russian media.

I'm really impressed of their strategy of truth telling.

[Vovka]

Last thing I heard from russian media was their interview several days ago with some refugee from Sloviansk who told that ukrainian soldiers gathered local residents on main square, crucified small boy like Jesus so he suffered from pain for two hours until he finally died, then tied his mother to tank and dragged her around the square 3 times.
And that's not some non-mainstream conspirology resource you love, that's "mainstream" russian media.
I'm really impressed of their strategy of truth telling.

first channel interviewed a resident of Ukraine .. now you see how corrupt / deceitful Ukrainians (choose one you like more) xnxnxnxnxnxnxnxn

[Kuujis]

first channel interviewed a resident of Ukraine .. now you see how corrupt / deceitful Ukrainians (choose one you like more) xnxnxnxnxnxnxnxn

I think those were the actors hired by putler. Will they get medals like the "journos" "documenting" Crimea annexation?

This video is a pretty good description of the situation.
It's not a question of blindly trust russian media.Even under Kremlin influence  they are actually in a strategy of truth telling, wich is very interesting. Not because they suddenly love the truth but because this is the only strategy to counter the US soft power.

Dude... I dont even... ok, nvm. I already offered some tinfoil, you didn't need it.
Le BUTAN - would you still consider this "thinking properly"?

About economical situation in eastern Europa. You must think in long term. In the past, Russia was ruined, and has no capacity to help anybody. Now, with oil benefits, they have no more debts and his economy will rise in the next decades. Because mineral ressources will become rare and expensive, EU will face big problems.

Lets see - how many natural resource rich countries, which do not produce much else, do you know which you would call a "success story" on a comparative level to say... Germany? I maintain, that there are none. And the reason, which most people who "study geopolitic since many years" know and understand, is that if you do not create added value from the minerals you extract - you are a nation of miners. In this light - ONLY the mining sector may live well and this is not enough to sustain everyone else. Look at Japan for example - MINIMAL natural resources - yet one of the countries with IMMENSE intelectual and technological potential + comparatively HUGE economy (addmittedly - currently in sociological crisis due to ageing, but I believe these problems are solvable, when you have a good head of state instead of a greedy-corrupt head of state).

24 years ago baltic states and Poland and number of others looked "in the long term" and threw their lot in with the EU and NATO. Belorussia, Ukraine, Moldova, number of others - did not. Which of them are better of after these 24 years? Funny shit is - EVEN with the ridiculous prices of natural resources sold to the former SU countries - they STILL manage to grow and develop far better than the heavily subsidized Ukraine and Belorussia had. What the fuck did you do during your "study geopolitic since many years" time to miss this?

[Vovka]

actor, but Ukrainian (Galina Ostapenko, of her husband's surname Pushnyak, 1975 birth, born  Soimy Mizhgirya district, Transcarpathian region) there is alot mad people and media (and russian and ua media) use heir mad stories

i loled

[Tibe]

(click to show/hide)

Its quite easy to blame USA and Illuminate for a lot of misfortunes cause the 2 work in the shadows, so a lot of times people tend to give them lot more credit than they deserve.

first channel interviewed a resident of Ukraine .. now you see how corrupt / deceitful Ukrainians (choose one you like more) xnxnxnxnxnxnxnxn

To be fair even quite many russian officials stated that claim as utter bullshit and this time just going to far with the lying.