Meanwhile in Ukraine

[DonNicko]

OMG, this is so easy, you really don't know what diplomacy is. And you are trying to discuss about.
First of all the agreement between the power and opposition about settlement of crisis in Ukraine was signed on Friday February 21 in Kiev by the president of Ukraine Victor Yanukovych and leaders of opposition Vitaly Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Oleh Tyahnybok. The agreement was testified by Foreign Ministers of Poland Radoslav Sikorsky and Germany Frank-Walter Steinmeier and  the head of Department of continental Europe of Foreign Affairs of France Eric Fournier. In that agreement Maidan reeched all goals that they stood for. And that was doplomatic! Why they made revolution next day I don't know. And that was anticonstitutionally and there wasn't any diplomacy. But all Europe says that it was legit, in what ways it was legit? Any sane man will say that it was the armed capture of the power. And if opposition would follow the agreement they reeched, Crimea would be in Ukraine, there wasn't any war on the east.
But what new president have to do now. He must give to regions more then half what they want, but on paper. and when they will fill that they reeched their goal, step by step return what he gave them. He will never win in military way, because Russians never give up. It's basic principle in diplomacy - promise much, do what you need. Same in Russian Federation, same in EU, same in USA. Why ukranian president doesn't want to do so? Maybe he is a puppet of somebody? Then Ukraine will loose again.

[DonNicko]

Poland is 100 times better off than Russia. More fair, more freedom, more wealth, more sense, more rights, much less corrupt, less violent, less propaganda. The country is getting better to live in year after year. If you don't believe me, go and see for yourself. To it, and come back to this thread and report what you saw.

OMG, I live in so bad country, I can't believe that I'm still alive. And this propaganda is so... so... so what you said, Me and Vovka so propoganded,so we are like zombies now. just one question how long have you been living in Russia? And have you ever been in Russia?

U cant negotiate with Russia the way u negotiate with other normal countries. Like I said before their way of diplomacy is pretty damn blunt and every deal they make is always extremely in their favor.

Yes, WTF this russians sell us their products at very high prices, damn russians! What can I say, don't negotiate then.

[Kuujis]

"It was that we were both mired into coolly and correctly ignoring one another. It could only make our quarrel worse, and yet I could not bend enough to try any other way. It seemed to me I had already made enough efforts to mend things and been rebuffed. I wanted him to show sign of wishing to make things right between us. But he did not.
So days of misery trickled past."

Nice quote. Since when do you feel the need to take some of that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_high_ground and stress ones http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-righteousness?
BTW - did the author also sold his principles together with some military ships to russia?

I would point you to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... but this is history... and only idiots even attempt to learn from it, right?

OMG, I live in so bad country, I can't believe that I'm still alive. And this propaganda is so... so... so what you said, Me and Vovka so propoganded,so we are like zombies now. just one question how long have you been living in Russia? And have you ever been in Russia?
Yes, WTF this russians sell us their products at very high prices, damn russians! What can I say, don't negotiate then.

yeah... well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#The_Budapest_Memorandums

See any more point in negotiations? Would YOU negotiate with partners like this?

Wake up, go to some... I don't know... Poland, or... Germany, or UK, see how people live...

Also - please let your elected government know, that "live and let live" is a nice first step to good neighbors.

But who am I kidding... Its like Ivani4 posted - one has to beats his neighbors from time to time to keep some respect going. Does it work for you too? Do you do that periodically?

[Kafein]

The only possible outcome of diplomacy with Russia at this point is accelerating the cool-down process and giving legitimacy to Russian actions in Ukraine. In the long term, Ukraine has absolutely nothing to gain from diplomacy. They have already lost many things on the ground, which Russia will never accept to give back peacefully. The country suffering the most from these tensions right now is Russia, really. They got what they wanted and now they want all this mess to be forgotten. Tensions poisons their economy and diplomacy much more than it does the Ukrainian diplomacy and economy at large (the Ukrainian economy is damaged by the situation on the ground which will not be fixed by diplomacy anyway).

[DonNicko]

yeah... well...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#The_Budapest_Memorandums

See any more point in negotiations? Would YOU negotiate with partners like this?

Wake up, go to some... I don't know... Poland, or... Germany, or UK, see how people live...

Also - please let your elected government know, that "live and let live" is a nice first step to good neighbors.

But who am I kidding... Its like Ivani4 posted - one has to beats his neighbors from time to time to keep some respect going. Does it work for you too? Do you do that periodically?

Russian soul doesn't need foreign worthes, I was in Germany and what? Russia is near for my heart. What Russia did to Ukraine before revolution? Nothing. Ukraine lost Crimea only because of their stupid unnecessary actions, like Russian Empire lost a lot of territories after revolution in 1917, like USSR lost a lot of territory after stupid actions of Eltsin. Now Ukraine. How Russia beats neighbors now, some examples, please don't say Crimea again, be a little bit original

[Tibe]

We have given shitton of examples of how Russia beats its neibhours(thats not Crimea). All your neibhours hate u. And this isnt cause of some Western propaganda garbage your goverment tries to tell u. Russia has ruined a lot of diplomatic negotiations with its neibhours, simply because it likes being a dick. No real reasons. No profit. Just for the sake of being dicks. And sometimes for simply demanding too much.

Yes, WTF this russians sell us their products at very high prices, damn russians! What can I say, don't negotiate then.

Again I clearified this in the past pages. Im not gonna explain this anymore. Live happy in your great soviet-era motherland, while the rest of the world moves forward. What else to say really.

[serr]

Ukraine lost Crimea only because of their stupid unnecessary actions

So, there were no ridiculous russian propaganda and no russian soldiers capturing buildings and blocking military bases, right?

[Thomek]

OMG, I live in so bad country, I can't believe that I'm still alive. And this propaganda is so... so... so what you said, Me and Vovka so propoganded,so we are like zombies now. just one question how long have you been living in Russia? And have you ever been in Russia?
Yes, WTF this russians sell us their products at very high prices, damn russians! What can I say, don't negotiate then.

I have been to Russia. (Kaliningrad) for 2 weeks. And I was pretty shocked to see how the system works there. Don't you look around sometimes? Is it right that thiefs and their whores are the richest people in your country? That they own the justice system? That there is no Justice for normal people? That abuse of power is the NORM rather than the exception? Don't you see that while rest of the world moves forward, Russia is practically standing still? That the few people that dears to tell the truth gets killed, threatened and jailed?

Look in your pocket ffs. It should be more money there. You live in the richest country on earth by natural resources. But someone stole it before you got it. (Hint: No, it's not EU or Americans who stole it, but Russians)

I lived in Poland for 7 years. This country has a good future, and a decent now. You can have a good life here. Without powerful friends.

[Kuujis]

Russian soul doesn't need foreign worthes, I was in Germany and what? Russia is near for my heart. What Russia did to Ukraine before revolution? Nothing. Ukraine lost Crimea only because of their stupid unnecessary actions, like Russian Empire lost a lot of territories after revolution in 1917, like USSR lost a lot of territory after stupid actions of Eltsin. Now Ukraine. How Russia beats neighbors now, some examples, please don't say Crimea again, be a little bit original

Russia doesn't need foreign worthes... What is "worthes"? Riches? Goods? Maybe capital? I would beg to disagree on all 3 accounts.

I don't even want to start about "stupid others loosing their territories which we agreed to respect and not take by force". And the comment about USSR loosing territory... Care to elaborate? - USSR lost what it occupied for 50 years, not "its territories". Go read some proper history books, not the ones putler writes for his "mother russia loving simpletons" like you have just proven yourself to be.

Who did russia beat recently... lets see...
Chechens. They wanted and voted for independence, like Crimea... No?
Moldova with their frozen conflict of Trans-Dniestr.
Georgia - after a bunch of provocations and glorious short war creating two shit-states noone cares to acknowledge.
Ukraine - after the people removed the puppet president suddenly - NATZESESSEEEEESES everywhere, lets get crimea back.
Next... lets see... who would be next. LATVIA! Shit, ... too much NATO there... ESTONIA - shit... the same NATO there... I think some Kyrgistan or Azerbaijan might follow?
Also - I do believe you would treat hostile declarations about "rewriting history" a... FRIENDLY and CONSTRUCTIVE gesture, but I assure you - few in the baltics think so.
Little shit like blocking imports in random economic sectors and price fixing deals thus abusing Gazprom monopoly also are not to be treated like "beating neighbors" no?

I would be ashamed of my country if it acted this way and would be joining rallies against shit like this. Yet - 80% of robbed simpletons support putler...

[Leshma]

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Nostalgia is a bitch

http://justice4germans.com/2013/08/23/ukrainians-honour-the-service-and-sacrifices-of-the-waffen-ss-galicia-division/

[DonNicko]

Ofcourse we have a lot of thiefs, if you know history, new era of Russia began only 20 years ago. We had a lot of mafia bands, which controlled Russia, now you won't find them here, people earn money here, I earn about 2000$ per mounth, about 4 millions ukranians work in Russia. We have a lot of places for work. But yes those oligarches stole money from Russia and send them to foreign countries, especially USA, so I think maybe USA stole them by russian oligarches.
It is so hard to discuss with some of you, because you believe only in one point of view - yours. But what I want to say: in the conflict both parties are always guilty.
Serr, I know that Russia sent armed people to Crimea. Putin said that many times. If Crimea was occupied by russians, why then they decided to join it?

[Oberyn]

Ofcourse we have a lot of thiefs, if you know history, new era of Russia began only 20 years ago. We had a lot of mafia bands, which controlled Russia, now you won't find them here, people earn money here, I earn about 2000$ per mounth, about 4 millions ukranians work in Russia. We have a lot of places for work. But yes those oligarches stole money from Russia and send them to foreign countries, especially USA, so I think maybe USA stole them by russian oligarches.
It is so hard to discuss with some of you, because you believe only in one point of view - yours. But what I want to say: in the conflict both parties are always guilty.
Serr, I know that Russia sent armed people to Crimea. Putin said that many times. If Crimea was occupied by russians, why then they decided to join it?

Obviously as russians the only way they would betray the Motherland was if evil USA was behind it. Who ever heard of corrupt russian businessmen and officials otherwise? An obvious calumny. And clearly they have ceased to exist since Putin came to power. Yup, no such thing as russian oligarchs anymore. Or mafia.
Maybe the nonstop propaganda blared from state owned russian "journalists" about how evil ukrainian chocolate chip cookie's were about to slaughter the poor opressed russian minority played a part in their deciding to join it. Why did Suddetenland join the Reich when it was militarily occupied by germans?

[Tibe]

Seriuslly Nicko. That is utter nonsense. You poor misunderstood and tormented by the whole world for no reason ruskies.

[Kuujis]

It is so hard to discuss with some of you, because you believe only in one point of view - yours. But what I want to say: in the conflict both parties are always guilty.

Its like saying that girls wearing sexy clothes in the summer are also partially guilty of rape that they happen to be victim of. This is bullshit. Plain and simple. Once you understand how guilty of bullshit your country is - its only natural to look for company in the guilt, but I'm afraid there is little to find. Deal with it.

Serr, I know that Russia sent armed people to Crimea. Putin said that many times. If Crimea was occupied by russians, why then they decided to join it?

You been there? Anyone worthy of trust witnessed the voting and counting of votes? How can you even THINK of a referendum about joining aggressor country being valid if the aggressors troops are on the ground? EVEN if they are "nice" and carrying guns/driving around in IFV's just for show? Dude... wake the fuck up! Its EXACTLY why putler's nickname came to be, because its EXACTLY what happened before WW2 in Sudettenland.

[Vovka]

Its like saying that girls wearing sexy clothes in the summer are also partially guilty of rape that they happen to be victim of.

Hmm looks legit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-464150/Judges-mercy-man-raped-girl-ten.html