Poll

Will Putin command further invasion of Ukraine:

He will and he should, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will, but he should not, because <random witty/boring reason>
He will not, because <random witty/boring reason>
Who is mister Putin?

Author Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine  (Read 632022 times)

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Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3750 on: May 10, 2014, 07:30:42 pm »
0
lol are you seriuos about Georgia?
Yes, I am. Are you?

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3751 on: May 10, 2014, 07:32:41 pm »
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Yes, I am. Are you?
Georgia was an agressor, that was said by OSCE. I was there when they started to launch rockets. I drived a car to take wounded people.

Offline Molly

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3752 on: May 10, 2014, 07:36:05 pm »
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I dont know how, but and you exactly cant say the truth. About video, it can be. And dont you think that it can be provokation? Just imagine. Even if we will take off 100000 of bulletins, it wont change the result - mathematics)
Well, they managed to catch one truck with 100.000 votes. Who says there weren't another 9 on route. Does that change mathematics? :rolleyes:
When west germany annexed east germany, nobody moved a finger too.

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3753 on: May 10, 2014, 07:39:01 pm »
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Well, they managed to catch one truck with 100.000 votes. Who says there weren't another 9 on route. Does that change mathematics? :rolleyes:
Then it should be 1000000000000001 voted blanks for sure. I said I dont know what exactly happened on referendum, but people are happy)

Offline Segd

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3754 on: May 10, 2014, 07:40:14 pm »
0
SBU caught a group of armed people who were delivering 100.000 of filled bulletins for tomorrow's so called referendum. Obviously, they were filled "yes". Same scenario as in Crimea? DonNicko, tell me more how there are more people in Sevastopol since 2001 (yeah, with total population of 300k they managed to give 400+k of votes, including children?) :rolleyes:

Wow, I surprised that they managed to make sane question for referendum. Not like that Crimea bullshit questions.

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3755 on: May 10, 2014, 07:42:04 pm »
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Yatsenyuk said that everybody will be freed from jail, and everybody will be punished who killed civilians. that was before revolution 23 february. Now they send army to the East, where civilians die. Will he punish himself?
(click to show/hide)
And somebody give me links, where Kiev government condemn radicals who killed civilians and beat them in Odessa and other regions.

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3756 on: May 10, 2014, 07:47:25 pm »
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Quote
And somebody give me links, where Kiev government condemn radicals who killed civilians and beat them in Odessa and other regions.
I don't remember them doing that. I remember them expressing their sorrow for dead and promising to investigate whole incident.

Quote
Yatsenyuk said that everybody will be freed from jail, and everybody will be punished who killed civilians. that was before revolution 23 february. Now they send army to the East, where civilians die. Will he punish himself?
So, what shoud they do instead? What would happen if army and police stayed out of it? What would pro-rus protesters do if they didn't meet any resistance? What would civil ukrainians do? Any ideas?

Quote
SBU caught a group of armed people who were delivering 100.000 of filled bulletins for tomorrow's so called referendum. Obviously, they were filled "yes". Same scenario as in Crimea? DonNicko, tell me more how there are more people in Sevastopol since 2001 (yeah, with total population of 300k they managed to give 400+k of votes, including children?) :rolleyes:
Quote
I dont know how, but and you exactly cant say the truth. About video, it can be. And dont you think that it can be provokation? Just imagine. Even if we will take off 100000 of bulletins, it wont change the result - mathematics)

No, this is certainly not Crimea scenario. In Crimea they controlled everything and therefore managed to create something that remotedly looked like referendum. In Donetsk and Luhansk region they control several towns, and in several more towns there are fights/they are partially controlled. They simply can't make referendum, that's technically impossible.
Honestly, I don't know how would population there vote in real referendum, but that's not important now, there won't be referendum tomorrow, they will just write results needed for them and then will try to create visibility of people's will as much as they can.

Offline Vovka

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3757 on: May 10, 2014, 07:52:11 pm »
+1
SBU caught a group of armed people who were delivering 100.000 of filled bulletins for tomorrow's so called referendum. Obviously, they were filled "yes". Same scenario as in Crimea? DonNicko, tell me more how there are more people in Sevastopol since 2001 (yeah, with total population of 300k they managed to give 400+k of votes, including children?) :rolleyes:

remind me news: http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/samsung.asp

for 100k bulletens u need 200 stack of paper 500 paper sheet  in each


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Offline Christo

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3758 on: May 10, 2014, 07:59:21 pm »
0
Russia related:

Russian deputy PM sends bomber tweet after Romania airspace ban


Quote from: theguardian.com
"Romania has asked Moscow for an explanation after Russia's deputy prime minister, Dmitry Rogozin, reacting to being barred from its airspace, tweeted he would return in a TU-160 strategic bomber."

)))

So this is where this stupid sense of 'humor' is coming from.
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Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3759 on: May 10, 2014, 08:02:40 pm »
0
So, what shoud they do instead? What would happen if army and police stayed out of it? What would pro-rus protesters do if they didn't meet any resistance? What would civil ukrainians do? Any ideas?
The wouldn't die - the first. The second it would help to make a dialogue. Do you know the tactics - first recede (give them what they want) then atack (take what you want), it will take a lot of time, but you will not lose people and you will gain them later, because you have real political forces. That how Putin made in Chechnya. He gave them money and freedom to make the constitution the want.
I don't remember them doing that. I remember them expressing their sorrow for dead and promising to investigate whole incident.
How long do you think they will do it?

Offline Kuujis

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3760 on: May 10, 2014, 08:11:51 pm »
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Georgia was an agressor, that was said by OSCE. I was there when they started to launch rockets. I drived a car to take wounded people.
On this - I agree. After series of provocations fools started firing. Too true. Do you want me to accept a fact, that Georgia suddenly started firing on some of their citizens and russia just HAD to protect them because...reasons? That's the story you believe? That a literally country of few million suddenly, unprovoked, decided to attack... who? Was it russia? Or a bunch of would be separatists, just like russia did in Chechnya? I'm confused, please enlighten me, how was it whitewashed in putlers media?

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3761 on: May 10, 2014, 08:17:15 pm »
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Quote
The wouldn't die - the first. The second it would help to make a dialogue. Do you know the tactics - first recede (give them what they want) then atack (take what you want), it will take a lot of time, but you will not lose people and you will gain them later, because you have real political forces. That how Putin made in Chechnya. He gave them money and freedom to make the constitution the want.

But if they from the very beginning demanded joining to Russia or federalisation? What should government give them?
Again, everything else was promised to them before they took weapons and certain steps for "protecting russian language" were made.

As for "there wouldn't be deaths then" - I don't agree, I think there probably would be even more deaths that way, just in different way, but we'll never know.

Offline Butan

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3762 on: May 10, 2014, 08:17:27 pm »
-3
Fine.

(click to show/hide)


When I read that my reaction is : thats the worst you can conjure Saruman?

Reading between the lines, I can see why Russia reacted so badly, as much as Latvia causes for those measures (and vice versa, Russia agressive diplo and Latvia reaction). This + all the historical background result in hostile relationship, ok, but I dont see how Russia is 100% guilty of it... a dispute need two sides to exist.

Offline DonNicko

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3763 on: May 10, 2014, 08:23:48 pm »
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On this - I agree. After series of provocations fools started firing. Too true. Do you want me to accept a fact, that Georgia suddenly started firing on some of their citizens and russia just HAD to protect them because...reasons? That's the story you believe? That a literally country of few million suddenly, unprovoked, decided to attack... who? Was it russia? Or a bunch of would be separatists, just like russia did in Chechnya? I'm confused, please enlighten me, how was it whitewashed in putlers media?
Fools dont start firing from mortars. As I said I was there, and there was a lot of rockets, that was not one foolish man started to fire, that was massive atack at once. I was wounded there in the right leg with bullet while carrying wounded people, a lot of people were dead. We protected ourselves. Seems you believe only what you want to believe as many people. And now you will say it all is made by Putin ofcource, can you say how russia provoked them, why there were so many tanks btrs and troops?

Offline serr

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Re: Meanwhile in Ukraine
« Reply #3764 on: May 10, 2014, 08:25:44 pm »
+1
Quote
How long do you think they will do it?
Discussing that outside of context of whole event is pointless and I was away from any news back then and learnt about those terrible events only 4 days after, so basically missed first reaction of people and could easily miss something important.
You better talk to Dave about that, that's his city, he should know better.

But well, answering your question, if I didn't miss anything and there indeed was no condemnation of Ultras(football fans) and other pro-ua radicals actions there - obviously there won't be any, too late. As for reasons - that's subject for another discussion, which I'm not ready for.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 08:30:35 pm by serr »