Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

As I said before, Ukrainian army is infiltrated by provocators. Especially the National Guard and special forces.

[Molly]

I said proper proof. RT hardly falls under that line.

[Tovi]

I'm not an UNO inspector, so I can't give any "proof". And my source is not RT.
I give you some explanations about ukrainians events. You are free to think that Putin is a great Devil like Ben Laden or whoever you want. That's a way to see Reality.

[DonNicko]

Some video by civils:

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[serr]

Second video, 2:52
Peaceful civils...

[Butan]

I said proper proof. RT hardly falls under that line.

Hmmm... You know you dont have to believe what RT "says" about such or such events, you just have to watch the videos. Images dont lie. Or you're also accusing RT of editing their vids?...

If all pro-Kiev medias refuses to publish videos where bad light shines down on Kiev actions, and RT does, you're going to auto-brainwash with that kind of reaction.

[DonNicko]

Second video, 2:52
Peaceful civils...

I dont say nothing. He is an idiot. but seems to me this is traumatic weapon

[[ptx]]

Can I ask you what offending things Russia did to the Baltic countries over the last 20 years?

Yes, it would be a long list of diplomatic and covert offenses, disregarding the constant shittalking. (protip: Kiev government isn't the first they've labelled as fascist)

[Butan]

Second video, 2:52
Peaceful civils...

Serr, this is civil war... Ofc both sides fight it out. I think those that are in this thread since 18 february understand the problem...
In a civil war, whenever the government kills his own population they are always labelled as the bad guys.
At this point its no longer "which side is right which side is wrong".

examples : maidan, syria, russia with tchetchen.



I'm just eargerly waiting democratic countries to start to backpeddle from this civil war bloodbath because its beginning to be very very hard to justify whats happening. They arent consistent in their political/ethical approach.
Only way to justify it is keep talking about how Putin is behind everything, threatening world peace etc... but it will not work forever, and it never worked to stop the unrest itself.

[DonNicko]

Yes, it would be a long list of diplomatic and covert offenses, disregarding the constant shittalking. (protip: Kiev government isn't the first they've labelled as fascist)

When Kiev government was labelled as a fascist? I dont think that Kiev government is a fascist it has only some part of it. And it says that those crimes that made by this parts, didn't get any punishment and condemnation from government. And on Ukranian TV you can here only about pro-russian terrorists. Maybe I'm wrong.

[[ptx]]

When Kiev government was labelled as a fascist? I dont think that Kiev government is a fascist it has only some part of it. And it says that those crimes that made by this parts, didn't get any punishment and condemnation from government. And on Ukranian TV you can here only about pro-russian terrorists. Maybe I'm wrong.

Ever since Maidan won? Why is it that the crimean and east ukrainian population, all under the influence of kremlin-controlled media, call the Kiev government a "fascist junta"?

I guess i've realised why is that us Balts see the current events in Ukraine as something so obvious. It's because Kremlin is doing only a few new things there. For the past 10 years or so, it has waged an information war of the exact same type (although obviously of much lower intensity) against the Baltic states - claiming our governments are fascist (being anti-fascist is so trendy over there), that the local russian-speaking minorities are repressed and that they are under threat of some impending doom. Kremlin-controlled media is influential not only over the population of Russia, the russian-speaking populations of neighboring countries are under the same influence. Kremlin is very well practiced at using those populations like a weapon against the governments of those countries, in order to achieve whatever agenda it is pursuing at the time. Which is why i don't believe for a second that the eastern Ukrainians are doing anything other than what Kremlin wants them to do, even in the unlikely scenario, where they don't have boots on the ground directly coordinating them.

[Butan]

All non-pro-RUS screams putin is the same thing, does it mean they are bad?

[serr]

When Kiev government was labelled as a fascist? I dont think that Kiev government is a fascist it has only some part of it.

Oh really? I would understand this from Butan, who don't speak russian, but I read mostly russian sources and it is EVERYWHERE. The worst is when people you respect, famous singers, writers you read start talk bullshit about "ukrainian fascism". Lately it came from "ukrainian government = fascism" to "Ukraine = fascism". I'm glad that you think otherwise, but there are clear tries, and it seems rather successful, from russian media and many public figures to equalize our country with fascism.

[Butan]

Please serr, at least you I call you to sense, doesnt those who label Kiev fascist are as wrong and stupid as those who label Kremlin fascist?..

If you dont acknowledge the comparison and deem that one accusation is true and one is false, it means you are defending a side of the propaganda instead of the simple truth.


pls serr 

[[ptx]]

I edited my previous post:

I guess i've realised why is that us Balts see the current events in Ukraine as something so obvious. It's because Kremlin is doing only a few new things there. For the past 10 years or so, it has waged an information war of the exact same type (although obviously of much lower intensity) against the Baltic states - claiming our governments are fascist (being anti-fascist is so trendy over there), that the local russian-speaking minorities are repressed and that they are under threat of some impending doom. Kremlin-controlled media is influential not only over the population of Russia, the russian-speaking populations of neighboring countries are under the same influence. Kremlin is very well practiced at using those populations like a weapon against the governments of those countries, in order to achieve whatever agenda it is pursuing at the time. Which is why i don't believe for a second that the eastern Ukrainians are doing anything other than what Kremlin wants them to do, even in the unlikely scenario, where they don't have boots on the ground directly coordinating them.