Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kuujis]

video made by west ukrainians
but who cares, right?

I think the more moderate and reasonable russians would agree with the message too. But that is just me 

[DonNicko]

Corrupt guy bribing his way out of a country where at least SOME part of populace would support him if he gave the right tale ala "Right sector Kiev natzcszi gvnmnt out to get me bla bla halp".... I don't see much problem with escaping

Where is the answer? no answer. keep trolling.

As to using armed forces in easter ukraine - do YOU have a serious idea how to handle armed separatists who are doing what they want (including, but prob. not limited to kidnapping, torture, murder, extortion, robberies)? IMO - current Ukraine government response is QUITE adequate, and if judged by russian standards - even mild (see russian response to refusal to give up by chechens in Grozno for a reference handling of separatists the putlers way).

You think armed separatists must be handled? There wasn't kidnapping in the East, in Kiev was. there wasnt torture, murder, extortion, robberies in the East, in Kiev were, About Chechnya seems you dont know nothing about situation now, so keep it in your mind please. I have relatives in lugansk, Kiev, and Donetsk, I call them and I know what they think.
Watch how OSCE talk with terrorists, separatists

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Questions to you: do you find sending diversionary special forces to neighboring country and then annexing part of that country a friendly gesture?

lol man what a great propaganda, where do you see special forces? West talking about russian special forces in Ukraine for 2 monthes but cant prove it anyhow.

I don't know why cops & pro-russians had same red tape. I didn't give it to them.  [conspiracy]Ask Putin, he should know[/conspiracy]

Lol, ofcource Putin knows everything Why pro-europe ukranians also had red tape? Why Avakov let escape people who were killing ukranians? Because Putin made it! When I listen you, it becomes that Putin fights against Putin!

[Kuujis]

Where is the answer? no answer. keep trolling.

There is no answer to satisfy you here. Its called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts.

You think armed separatists must be handled? There wasn't kidnapping in the East, in Kiev was. there wasnt torture, murder, extortion, robberies in the East, in Kiev were, About Chechnya seems you dont know nothing about situation now, so keep it in your mind please. I have relatives in lugansk, Kiev, and Donetsk, I call them and I know what they think.
Watch how OSCE talk with terrorists, separatists

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

I am... dumbfounded... how do you think armed gangs "demanting independence" should be treated? I know how they WERE treated in russia 10 years ago. That was not reasonable. And I think they HAVE to be treated and the things current ukraine government is doing are reasonable. You want to see reasonable independence handing? Look at how Scotland are working towards their independence. This "rob armories, blockade towns, cause general BS" is not reasonable.

I beg to disagree with he whole 3rd sentence. CBA to find exact posts of each item, but they are in this thread.

Also - I do not understand, what those videos are supposed to prove. Care to elaborate?

lol man what a great propaganda, where do you see special forces? West talking about russian special forces in Ukraine for 2 monthes but cant prove it anyhow.

Like... amm... putler admitting to russian special forces operating in Crimea is not enough to prove russias involvement in destabilization of Ukraine? You are that sure of your sources? And after that - someone is supposed to believe russia is not working in eastern crimea? For real?

[DonNicko]

I am... dumbfounded... how do you think armed gangs "demanting independence" should be treated? I know how they WERE treated in russia 10 years ago. That was not reasonable. And I think they HAVE to be treated and the things current ukraine government is doing are reasonable. You want to see reasonable independence handing? Look at how Scotland are working towards their independence. This "rob armories, blockade towns, cause general BS" is not reasonable.

I beg to disagree with he whole 3rd sentence. CBA to find exact posts of each item, but they are in this thread.

Also - I do not understand, what those videos are supposed to prove. Care to elaborate?
Like... amm... putler admitting to russian special forces operating in Crimea is not enough to prove russias involvement in destabilization of Ukraine? You are that sure of your sources? And after that - someone is supposed to believe russia is not working in eastern crimea? For real?

First of all you are lack of information, they don't want independence like Scotland, and even they wanted to do it, government doesnt let it, they know that 90% of population on the east agree with "separatists". East asked many times to make a dialogue but Kiev always rejected dialogue. Deputy Oleg Tsarev asked many times to sit to the table, it's rejected and now Verkhovna Rada deprives him of inviolability. Verkhovna Rada also deleted сommunist party from disscusions and party of regions also. So where is the democracy?

About Crimea, please read contracts between Ukraine and Russia, and you will see that Russia can hold 25000 troops in it, so everything within the law.

[[ptx]]

PTX never said it's normal or commendable. PTX said it's to be expected.

Not really. What i said is, driving a column of cars, with large Russian and Soviet flags attached to them, into a city, during a crisis such as in Ukraine right now, is a clear provocation. Saying otherwise is blatantly ignorant. Also, iirc, there was another video of the same event, taken by a pedestrian nearby, that showed a very different perspective.

[Kuujis]

First of all you are lack of information, they don't want independence like Scotland, and even they wanted to do it, government doesnt let it, they know that 90% of population on the east agree with "separatists". East asked many times to make a dialogue but Kiev always rejected dialogue. Deputy Oleg Tsarev asked many times to sit to the table, it's rejected and now Verkhovna Rada deprives him of inviolability. Verkhovna Rada also deleted сommunist party from disscusions and party of regions also. So where is the democracy?

About Crimea, please read contracts between Ukraine and Russia, and you will see that Russia can hold 25000 troops in it, so everything within the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Like hell you know what 90% of population there wants. Only in pulters oppinion 123% of citizens in sevastopol can vote and 146% voting for putler is ok. Either cite your sources or skip using the numbers in this funny way For all I care - there is ~1k of armed punks who are causing mayhem in eastern ukraine. Since they hide in the populace, part of which support them, no denying here, arresting and handling them is difficult and bloody. They still have to be handled. Armed fighting is NOT reasonable. Civil dissobedience is. And yes - there is a difference.

As to agreements regarding russian army in Crimea - I'm pretty sure they were strictly bound to stay in the BASE they rented and ANY additional forces had to be approved by Ukraine first... Tell me, which of these two happened  as you put it "within the law"? I think even putlers propaganda machine dropped pushing of this idea... or didn't it?

You like answered questions, don't you? Please, see below.

how do you think armed gangs "demanting independence" should be treated?

I do not understand, what those videos are supposed to prove. Care to elaborate?

putler admitting to russian special forces operating in Crimea is not enough to prove russias involvement in destabilization of Ukraine? You are that sure of your sources? And after that - someone is supposed to believe russia is not working in eastern crimea? For real?

[Porthos]

Not really. What i said is, driving a column of cars, with large Russian and Soviet flags attached to them, into a city, during a crisis such as in Ukraine right now, is a clear provocation. Saying otherwise is blatantly ignorant. Also, iirc, there was another video of the same event, taken by a pedestrian nearby, that showed a very different perspective.

So I was actually right, you, guys, indeed trying to convince me for real, that attacking people with soviet flag is normal and commendable. Yep, let me finally agree with you - driving a column of cars with Russian flags is really horrifying provocation which must be solved with a hammer thrown in their face. Because what is the best reaction to provocation? Well, let me tell you. Some jerk on the street shows you the middle finger - PROVOCATION - you must chase him and then broke all his bones. Some punk girls singing a bullshit in the church - PROVOCATION - you must put them in prison for years or better just burn them. Some pro-russian activists driving around with their flags - PROVOCATION - throw a hammer in the face. I agree. Tolerance is for fairies. Let's be hard, we're at the border of the war for god's sake, so let's actually kill each other just for wearing the wrong flags already. Maybe we will prevent the war with such actions. Gosh, wtf... Ah, forget, I'm probably a blatantly ignorant guy with a low IQ, so don't waste your valuable time to explain to me such obvious thing like this. Anyways, since I realized your wisdom, so tell me guys, when we shall hunt some provocateur twags, I want to participate in the work of saving peace on earth.

[[ptx]]

What the fuck did you write that for? Try watching the video yourself, buddy. And then try going back to where it was posted and find the other video of same event. ACTUALLY WATCH IT AND THINK. Then come back and we can talk.

[Butan]

Its provocative, obviously, but only stupid people will take the bait and actually do physical harm, thats his point since forever PTX.

[[ptx]]

God fucking damnit, we've been over those 2 videos already, go back and re-watch and re-read, must i really repeat everything about them?

[Porthos]

What the fuck did you write that for? Try watching the video yourself, buddy. And then try going back to where it was posted and find the other video of same event. ACTUALLY WATCH IT AND THINK. Then come back and we can talk.

This? Okay, i did. Painful to watch, indeed. Those russian scums with their terrible provocative engine noise :( So what we can talk about now? You gonna tell me finally when the next hunting event will happen or what? I'm so angry right now, I want to smash them all to a death due to the fact that they came to Ukraine with these terrible provocative red rags. Nightmare! ACTWUALLEY!!1!1

[[ptx]]

Did you watch the video? Tell me, what did they do? I'm not seeing anyone throwing hammers in anyone's face? Maybe i'm just blind. All i see is people stopping a column driving into a city with foreign flags and taking down the flags. If you fail to understand the reasoning behind that column of cars, then i feel sorry for you.

[DonNicko]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring

Like hell you know what 90% of population there wants. Only in pulters oppinion 123% of citizens in sevastopol can vote and 146% voting for putler is ok. Either cite your sources or skip using the numbers in this funny way For all I care - there is ~1k of armed punks who are causing mayhem in eastern ukraine. Since they hide in the populace, part of which support them, no denying here, arresting and handling them is difficult and bloody. They still have to be handled. Armed fighting is NOT reasonable. Civil dissobedience is. And yes - there is a difference.

As to agreements regarding russian army in Crimea - I'm pretty sure they were strictly bound to stay in the BASE they rented and ANY additional forces had to be approved by Ukraine first... Tell me, which of these two happened  as you put it "within the law"? I think even putlers propaganda machine dropped pushing of this idea... or didn't it?

You like answered questions, don't you? Please, see below.

how do you think armed gangs "demanting independence" should be treated?

I do not understand, what those videos are supposed to prove. Care to elaborate?

putler admitting to russian special forces operating in Crimea is not enough to prove russias involvement in destabilization of Ukraine? You are that sure of your sources? And after that - someone is supposed to believe russia is not working in eastern crimea? For real?

You will see later the truth and eat your tie) 11 of may will be referendum and you will see what part of population support them. There is 9 millions russian people living in Ukraine, you cant do nothing with this

[Kuujis]

You will see later the truth and eat your tie) 11 of may will be referendum and you will see what part of population support them. There is 9 millions russian people living in Ukraine, you cant do nothing with this

There is this saying in Belorussia and Russia: its not important who votes how, its important how the votes are counted. If you think that these "referendums" will be or the previous  one in Crimea waslegit and up to democratic standards - you obviously live in russia, because "only in russia" (c).

And again - red herring. Because most likely RT does not provide all the needed info, right?

[DonNicko]

There is this saying in Belorussia and Russia: its not important who votes how, its important how the votes are counted. If you think that these "referendums" will be or the previous  one in Crimea waslegit and up to democratic standards - you obviously live in russia, because "only in russia" (c).

And again - red herring. Because most likely RT does not provide all the needed info, right?

And then say what is democratic referendum in your opinion? And was democratic an armed revolution in Kiev?
And what info? I dont watch RT. Half of my relatives live in Ukraine. And I know what propaganda in Ukraine and what propoganda in Russia, and I can say in Ukraine is more stupid