Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Tovi]

As I said few days ago : Pravy Sektor and Svoboda's militias join the National Guard and some Ukrainians soldiers join the PR(Pro-Russian) militias. The battle has begun now. Nobody laugh anymore.

[Vovka]

Russian aircraft carrier sails into English Channel
HMS Dragon is escorting the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov through the English Channel
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10816463/Russian-aircraft-carrier-sails-into-English-Channel.html

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[Butan]

The more I hear the rebels in the East talking, the more I realize how huge the information gap is between us, regardless of where the actual facts stand.

Even more importantly, I feel this gap would be much easier to overcome if I could understand the material that they are watching and conversely. Knowing only one language creates an ideological bubble.

Most people on this thread speak english and some already gave you materials to think over ^^

[Christo]

Russian aircraft carrier sails into English Channel
HMS Dragon is escorting the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov through the English Channel
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10816463/Russian-aircraft-carrier-sails-into-English-Channel.html

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And there I was, thinking that Vovka did a 100% serious post for once.

THINK AGAIN

[Butan]

Its perfectly serious, France did surrender when the aircraft carrier passed 20km away from its coast  you didnt receive the telegraph?

[Kafein]

Most people on this thread speak english and some already gave you materials to think over ^^

It would be nice to understand e.g. news report on Russian channels. Most of the pro-rus rethoric going on in English is in the negative quality levels of journalism, and I can tell. It's easy to connect dots when you only have dots to go on.

At least with Russian sources I can't tell if it's straight conspiracy bullshit nobody listens to or if it's a generally accepted news source, so I'm curious.

[Torost]

Did not mean to derail the serious discussion, just came over this. And it seems very fresh, so figured I would post it in the thread.

RT put up a video showing various Russian missilesystems in action today.
Propaganda of course, "Do not poke the bear!"

Seeing and hearing those missilebatteries firing massive barrages ....

I hope Ukrainian shotcallers know that they can not solve this situation with force...
Yulia Timoshenko and friends thinking empty promises from EU and NATO will back them up, will end up like Georgian president Saakashvili eating his tie.

The bear

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[Swaggart]

Did not mean to derail the serious discussion, just came over this. And it seems very fresh, so figured I would post it in the thread.

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[Tovi]

It would be nice to understand e.g. news report on Russian channels. Most of the pro-rus rethoric going on in English is in the negative quality levels of journalism, and I can tell. It's easy to connect dots when you only have dots to go on.

At least with Russian sources I can't tell if it's straight conspiracy bullshit nobody listens to or if it's a generally accepted news source, so I'm curious.

Don't be blind. More and more westerners tell the truth now. Not only the russian medias. Another exemple here with Ron Paul (Former libertarian representative for Texas (1976-85 and 1997-2008) :

On the brink of what he calls a “civil war,” former United States congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul has called on the US to stay out of the intensifying Ukraine conflict, saying it was Western powers that initially stirred unrest there and which continue to incite the tense situation.

It looks like the civil war in Ukraine is getting much worse. Western Ukraine right now is being urged on by its Western supporters, meaning its NATO supporters, the European Union, the United States and the IMF (International Monetary Fund). Western Ukraine has moved to take back control of the cities in Eastern Ukraine that have been taken over by supporters of Russia.

Of course, it’s said in the major media that Russia has started all of this trouble, and so all this has to be done. The truth is, the coup of several weeks ago to overthrow the elected leader Viktor Yanokovych was stirred up by the same group: NATO, the European Union, the U.S., and the IMF.

Since this whole mess was started, we’ve been very much involved by spending more than $5 billion to control Ukraine. And this intervention continues. But the current fighting looks like a serious escalation that may get out of control, even though it’s in the interest on both sides, the West as well as Russia, not to escalate. There have been a lot of threats and intimidation on sanctions and economic penalties, which very well could get out of control.

Added recently has been a promise from the IMF of $17 billion to Ukraine under a specific condition: get rid of the control of these Eastern cities by Russian supporters. This is a condition that has been placed on them, so it’s not a surprise that, seemingly all of a sudden, we are seeing more aggressive activity by the Western Ukrainians to try to conquer these cities.

Ironically, the IMF doesn’t seem to have much common sense in trying to help the Ukrainian people because, in order to get this $17 billion, not only must they fight and control the East, they also have to raise taxes and increase oil prices—which will not help the people. This is generally the case when there are sanctions placed on a country, or when war breaks out: the people suffer and the special interests seem to thrive.

Also, I think this is certainly a shift from pretending that the Western Ukrainians are on the defensive because they’ve now instituted a military draft. In all seriousness, if a country is defending itself, then the people rally and you don’t have to use conscription to get fighters.

I maintain that it’s a mess over there, and it’s getting worse. We’re contributing to the problems. It would be much better for the Ukrainians, for the Europeans, for the Russians, and for the Americans, for us to just stay out and follow the principles of a non-intervention foreign policy. Don’t send the money and don’t send them weapons. Don’t get involved and don’t pick sides. Then I think the Ukrainian people might be able to settle this on their own, and a lot better than when there’s outside interference.
Ron Paul

Does Ron Paul is a russian propagandist ?

[Kuujis]

Don't be blind. More and more westerners tell the truth now. Not only the russian medias. Another exemple here with Ron Paul (Former libertarian representative for Texas (1976-85 and 1997-2008) :

Does Ron Paul is a russian propagandist ?

Cite your fucking sources  please If I understood correctly - the only "quote" in this whole paragraph is "civil war", which, when used out of context, may be turned around how ever you want.

Also - tell me, who is more blind - russian people, who watch only kremlin owned media or eastern europeans, who are able and watch both russia propaganda channels and western media?

[Kafein]

Does Ron Paul is a russian propagandist ?

Ron Paul is an American isolationist. Sorry to bring that analogy but he would also have not intervened back in WW2. In other words, he is part of the usual suspects and has a very good reason to say that this is true, regardless of whether it is true or not.

[DaveUKR]

Tovi get a habit to paste links in the posts where you give us "shocking news" and make sure that these sources are trustworthy.  Because sometimes your posts look like my quote taken out of context by Porthos.

[Molly]

Tovi get a habit to paste links in the posts where you give us "shocking news" and make sure that these sources are trustworthy.[...]

Oh, he does. Don't be unfair!
Just because we aren't as open-minded and informed as Tovi is, we lack the understanding to process his well-sourced posts.

[Butan]

One should cite source that the first source is a true source    never-ending

[Kuujis]

ANY source would be welcome.

Unless you are a butan OFC. Then you either don't need sources, if it fits your vision, or you need sources of sources, because <reasons>.