Croatia going medieval on your ass in 2013

[Prpavi]

A sad day for human rights (I know UN doesn't callify marrigae as human rights but..) and freedoms in general in my backward little country, who's next? Serbs, Blacks, Atheists?

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A majority of Croatians voted in a referendum Sunday to ban gay marriages in what is a major victory for the Catholic Church-backed conservatives in the European Union's newest nation.

The state electoral commission, citing near complete results, said 65 percent of those who voted answered "yes" to the referendum question: "Do you agree that marriage is matrimony between a man and a woman?" About 34 percent voted against.

The result meant that Croatia's constitution will be amended to ban same-sex marriage.

The vote has deeply divided Croatia. Liberal groups have said the referendum's question infringes on basic human rights. The Church-backed groups have gathered 750,000 signatures in its support.

Referendum results signal that right-wing and conservative forces have been gaining strength in Croatia amid the deepening economic crisis and widespread joblessness.

The country of 4.4 million, which became EU's 28th member in July, has taken steps to improve gay rights, but issues such as same-sex marriage remain highly sensitive in the staunchly Catholic nation.

The referendum was called by the "In the Name of the Family" conservative group after Croatia's center-left government drafted a law to let gay couples register as "life partners."

The Catholic Church leaders have urged their followers to vote "yes" in the referendum. Nearly 90 percent of Croatians are Roman Catholics.

"Marriage is the only union enabling procreation," Croatian Cardinal Josip Bozanic said in his message to the followers. "This is the key difference between a marriage and other unions."

Croatia's liberal president, Ivo Josipovic, said he voted against amending the constitution. Josipovic said the referendum result must be respected, but added the government is preparing a law to allow some rights to gays and lesbians living together.

"The referendum result must not be the reason for new divisions," Josipovic said. "We have serious economic and social problems. It's not worth it to focus on such issues."

Prime Minister Zoran Milanovic said earlier "this is the last referendum that gives a chance to the majority to strip a minority of its rights."

Conservatives have also started gathering signatures for another referendum, demanding a ban of the Cyrillic alphabet in Croatia. The Cyrillic is used in neighboring Serbia and by minority Serbs in Croatia. The nationalists blame the Serbs for atrocities committed by their troops during Croatia's 1991-95 war for independence from the Serb-led Yugoslavia.

The EU hasn't officially commented on the referendum, but has clashed with Croatia over some of its other laws, including an extradition law that has prevented its citizens from being handed over to the bloc's other member states, which Croatia had to amend under pressure from Brussels.

Several hundred gay rights supporters marched in the capital, Zagreb, on Saturday urging a "no" vote.

"I will vote against because I think that the referendum is not a festival of democracy, but a festival of oppression against a minority, which fights for its rights and which does not have its rights," Jura Matulic, a university student, said.

So basically a biggot quarter of the coutry changed the costitution, this opens a pandoras box for other referendums, some are already announced like the one against dual language signs the signatures are being collected. Viva la freedom!

[Butan]

Agreeing on marriage = matrimony between a man and a woman, only exclude man-man / woman-woman as long as you call it marriage.

Call it union and create the law around it and conservatives will be happy since it will not encroach upon the symbolism of the marriage in the religion.

This or they will have to find another argument but its the easiest to defeat 

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Marriage in general shouldn't be statesupported, since basically all groups of society disagree on what exactly marriage is it's better to just let all the various religions hold their own marriages and shit,

[Ninja_Khorin]

So, how about before you ban same-sex marriage, you create the alternative with the same rights and then ban using the word "marriage" for it.

No, this is just bigotry.

That whole religious argument is just nonsense as long as non-religious couples are getting married in civil marriage.

[BASNAK]

How will Djavo ever get married now?

[Kafein]

Create a new concept called Narriage, which will exclusively be man/man or woman/woman unions.

[zagibu]

How will Djavo ever get married now?

Marriage with goats doesn't fall under this law.

[Rumblood]

So, how about before you ban same-sex marriage, you create the alternative with the same rights and then ban using the word "marriage" for it.

No, this is just bigotry.

That whole religious argument is just nonsense as long as non-religious couples are getting married in civil marriage.

Labeling people as religious and non-religious is the bigotry. Volunteering the idea that you don't believe in sky fairies is akin to painting a discrimination target on your face to the religious quacks.

[MountedRhader]

The question of marriage and family was mentioned. I notice many people view this question wrong, not in its true essence.

It's not so much a question of artificial rights or power struggles or labeling as it is a question of what a proper family should be! After all a little boy or girl, totally guilt free and innocent deserves the best possible chance to succeed and grow with the least impediment. They deserve a stable family who provide a warm household that harbors the necessary facilities for their upbringing. & For hundreds of thousands of years relatively undamaged offspring have been reared to a mother-father, as nature calls for. After all a woman is genetically inscribed to be a caring mother, that is her divine duty and her most important role. A father exists to further the genetic line and to protect, provide, to nurture and complement the mother, as she also complements him.

Do you think these innocent little boys or girls could ever get these same successful upbringings, these same deserved chances to grow, these same opportunities as with 2 parents of the same sex who are not genetically wired, will never be genetically wired that way to bring up a child?

Is it not many a broken household that results nowadays now because many have lost the recognition of nature's eternal law, preferring contemporary ideas over reality? Does this not perpetuate this godawful problem, this plague and blight upon nations? Do you think success for the innocent generations to come can arrive by denying nature's dictate in the short term?

I felt the need to give my thoughts form so that I may spark a bit of wonder in your minds.

[Kafein]

The question of marriage and family was mentioned. I notice many people view this question wrong, not in its true essence.

It's not so much a question of artificial rights or power struggles or labeling as it is a question of what a proper family should be! After all a little boy or girl, totally guilt free and innocent deserves the best possible chance to succeed and grow with the least impediment. They deserve a stable family who provide a warm household that harbors the necessary facilities for their upbringing. & For hundreds of thousands of years relatively undamaged offspring have been reared to a mother-father, as nature calls for. After all a woman is genetically inscribed to be a caring mother, that is her divine duty and her most important role. A father exists to further the genetic line and to protect, provide, to nurture and complement the mother, as she also complements him.

Do you think these innocent little boys or girls could ever get these same successful upbringings, these same deserved chances to grow, these same opportunities as with 2 parents of the same sex who are not genetically wired, will never be genetically wired that way to bring up a child?

Is it not many a broken household that results nowadays now because many have lost the recognition of nature's eternal law, preferring contemporary ideas over reality? Does this not perpetuate this godawful problem, this plague and blight upon nations? Do you think success for the innocent generations to come can arrive by denying nature's dictate in the short term?

I felt the need to give my thoughts form so that I may spark a bit of wonder in your minds.

The "It's nature's way" argument doesn't hold, because very little of the environment we have evolved in as a species for thousands of years remains today. We need a man and a woman to procreate, but our brains are also limited to 150 friends, and we do not understand probabilities either. These and millions of other limitations of our bodies we do not hold as sacred "because it's nature", so why should only heterosexual couples educate children ?

It is also easily argued that a willing homosexual couple will do better parenting than a heterosexual couple having an unwanted baby. Due to the judeo-christian ethical background of the western world, we are in need of efficient measures at population control, and homosexual couples are an excellent means to that end. I do not know whether they are more or less fit to raise children but I do believe those that want to raise children for the sake of the children will do it properly. More importantly, they do not add to the problem by creating more children to educate.

[Ninja_Khorin]

Going with that logic, DashingRogue. Which is better, one mom or two moms?

Since single people can adopt children or can get artificially inseminated at will and occasionally get unwanted children too.

And yeah, divine duty. Please, try to be a little less transparent with your argument.

[Prpavi]

(click to show/hide)

The question of marriage and family was mentioned. I notice many people view this question wrong, not in its true essence.

It's not so much a question of artificial rights or power struggles or labeling as it is a question of what a proper family should be! After all a little boy or girl, totally guilt free and innocent deserves the best possible chance to succeed and grow with the least impediment. They deserve a stable family who provide a warm household that harbors the necessary facilities for their upbringing. & For hundreds of thousands of years relatively undamaged offspring have been reared to a mother-father, as nature calls for. After all a woman is genetically inscribed to be a caring mother, that is her divine duty and her most important role. A father exists to further the genetic line and to protect, provide, to nurture and complement the mother, as she also complements him.

Do you think these innocent little boys or girls could ever get these same successful upbringings, these same deserved chances to grow, these same opportunities as with 2 parents of the same sex who are not genetically wired, will never be genetically wired that way to bring up a child?

Is it not many a broken household that results nowadays now because many have lost the recognition of nature's eternal law, preferring contemporary ideas over reality? Does this not perpetuate this godawful problem, this plague and blight upon nations? Do you think success for the innocent generations to come can arrive by denying nature's dictate in the short term?

I felt the need to give my thoughts form so that I may spark a bit of wonder in your minds.

Do we really need more uneducated, poor children with no chance of quality life from the get go? How about milions of orphans across the world, don't they need a loving home no matter the parents sex?

You are looking this from a very western first world problems standpoint and none of your arguments are valid in cases like Africa or southeast Asia. Unfortunatley we have abused our way to prosperity (Europe) so it's about time we drop the religious false morality and focus on really helping the human kind.

Malls, Smartphones, PC we type on are a luxury in much of the world and your "devine" views are just a product of easy life and exploitation of others through centuries so you have the luxury to develop a sense of what is right, natural or devine. I'm not knocking that a man and a woman are needed to procreate, but education and upbringing have nothing to do with it. We're way past (again in wester world) the point where a man need to teach his sons to hunt or fight...

My friend and her girlfriend are raising a kid and he's turning out a wonderful person, at 6 yo he is well aware of the fact that mommy has a gf insted of a bf and the argument he'll be bullied in school because he said "he has 2 mommies" is just crap, he knows better. The fact that hurts him more is the fact his bum ass father won't have to do anything with him... oh and he likes girls so that argument in this case falls in the water too.

[Prpavi]

btw little update on what I wrote in the OP.

Seems like we might have another referendum, over 650.00 signatures were gathered (out of 450.00 required for the referendum) all over the country to change the rights of national minorities. The thing is they want to remove the dual language boards in the places where minorities have less than 50% of the population and thus limit the minorities use of language and writing. This happened after dual language boards in cirilic lettering were put in Vukovar a town severely destoryed in the war begining of the 90s. This town ironically has a big Serbian population because it's right on the Croatian/Serbian border.

The current goverment (socialist) will try to change the constitution before that and stop another disgrace, they will try to save our face political games. This could on the other hand lead to constitutional crysis. Happy times in Croatia!

[Osiris]

could be worse

http://news.sky.com/story/1181130/australia-gay-marriage-law-reversed-by-court

Australia's highest court has repealed a law permitting gay marriage - meaning dozens of couples face having their weddings annulled within days of the nuptials.

[Kafein]

Supreme courts