2H WPF and Penalty Clarification (Shields, Horseback, etc).

[PhayaNak]

Based on what I can find via Google and on the forums the why 2H WPF works is as follows:

2H weapons w/shield (e.g. longsword and shield) - Uses 1H WPF, but suffers some sort of speed and damage penalty (not sure what, seems like 25-30%)
2H weapons w/out shield on horseback - Uses 2H WPF and no penalties (not sure if that last bit is correct)
2H weapons alt mode - depends on alt mode basically, seems like most use polearm WPF if their animations look like polearm animations

WPF being used can be easily "checked" by looking at your block animations, 2H block = 2H WPF, polearm block = polearm WPF

Can anyone correct these? This shit is slightly confusing, and I've seen a variety of statements, but nothing official.

[sF_Guardian]

Using 2H on Horse (uses 2H WPF) should give a 30% penalty on speed and damage, at least from what I know.
Penalty when using 2H's with shield should be also 30%.

[San]

- If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations). If not, the penalty is -15%.

There's also a speed penalty.

From the game mechanics thread.

[CrazyCracka420]

Also yes to 2h in secondary mode uses polearm animations and WPF. 

[Penitent]

2h with shield= 1h wpf and ~30% speed and damage penalty.
2h on horse = 2h wpf and ~30% speed and damage penalty.
2h alt mode = polearm wpf and alternate stats (can see them in game when overing hover the item).

Look for some of these to be changed in the next patch though!

[PhayaNak]

Sweet, thanks guys. You all seem to be saying close to the same thing, which is better than what I found with my own searches. But now I have more questions 

I'm still not clear on the actual penalty. The game mechanics thread says it's -23.5% damage if it can be used with shields, or -15% if not (that doesn't make sense to me, shouldn't a 2H weapon that is designed to be used 1H or 2H have less penalty than a purely 2H weapon?), but most people are saying it's -30% to speed AND damage. Are the people right, or the game mechanics thread?

[Penitent]

Sweet, thanks guys. You all seem to be saying close to the same thing, which is better than what I found with my own searches. But now I have more questions 

I'm still not clear on the actual penalty. The game mechanics thread says it's -23.5% damage if it can be used with shields, or -15% if not (that doesn't make sense to me, shouldn't a 2H weapon that is designed to be used 1H or 2H have less penalty than a purely 2H weapon?), but most people are saying it's -30% to speed AND damage. Are the people right, or the game mechanics thread?

I'm not sure on the exact number, but I know its high enough to be shitty.  Purely 2h weapons cannot be used with shields at all.  The only ones that can are the bastard sword, heavy bastard sword, longsword, and morningstar. (I think I got them all).  And those are the weapons that incur a large penalty to speed and damage.  Other 2h weapons cannot be used with a shield.

Many spear polearms can be used with a shield, and I believe they incur the same penalty -- but because of their reach and pierce damage still make viable support weapons.

[Penitent]

Oh I see, you're talking about 2h/shield weapons on horseback vs just 2h weapons on horseback.  I don't know enough about that.

[PhayaNak]

Purely 2h weapons cannot be used with shields at all.  The only ones that can are the bastard sword, heavy bastard sword, longsword, and morningstar. (I think I got them all).  And those are the weapons that incur a large penalty to speed and damage.  Other 2h weapons cannot be used with a shield.

Yeah, that's why I was confused about this line:

- If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations). If not, the penalty is -15%.

I guess it means weapons that you can't use with a shield, but can use from horseback get -15%, whereas weapons that can be used with a shield, but are being used on horseback (not necessarily with a shield) get -23.5%.

Now I'm just not sure what weapons can only be used 2H on foot, but work 1h on horseback, but also can't be used with a shield, e.g. I've used the Persian War Axe on horseback, and the animations are 1H, but I haven't tried using it with a shield, so I don't know which category it would fall into.

Would be nice to see the actual code, with a list of any obscurely named variables are.

[PhayaNak]

Oh I see, you're talking about 2h/shield weapons on horseback vs just 2h weapons on horseback.  I don't know enough about that.

Exactly. Mainly because the mechanics don't make sense to me logically, so I'm not sure if the information available is correct. To me, if a 2H weapon can be used with a shield on foot as a 1H, then it should be *easier* to use on horseback 1H without a shield than a 2H weapon on horseback that would normally require 2H while on foot (because then you're using a much bigger/heavier 2H weapon with 1H on horseback).

[Penitent]

The 2h weapons that cannot be used on horseback will say so in the shop.

Only Bastard, Heavy Bastard, Longsword, and Morningstar can be used with shield.


I wish there was a better way to convey all the mechanic information than a really long mechanic thread as well...but what can ya do?

[MURDERTRON]

The 2h weapons that cannot be used on horseback will say so in the shop.

Only Bastard, Heavy Bastard, Longsword, and Morningstar can be used with shield.


I wish there was a better way to convey all the mechanic information than a really long mechanic thread as well...but what can ya do?

Mace. Katana.

[owens]

GOEDENDAG

[Penitent]

Nice!  I know I forgot katana, but I didn't know about the others.