New DTV map sucks

[Fips]

Jeezus christ, stop with the suggestions already. I told you guys many weeks ago that the last hotfix was just for me to figure out some problems with the spawnpoints and AI meshes, so i can review the suggested maps from other mappers better and more efficiently. And i also told you several times that there will be more open maps coming the next patch to balance out the smaller ones.

So you can either keep suggesting the same things over and over again until your hands fall off from all the typing or you can wait for the next patch to bring you guys what i told you so often already. There is nothing that i or anybody else can do about the current situation other than getting everything ready for the next patch.


Also, there are plenty of maps that allow everyone, even 30 players, to play constantly. Both ranged and melee. But i'm guessing those are still getting skipped because the xp and gold is not as good? Because when i still played crpg and dtv most of the times i saw people just skipping the more open ones (That eeeeeveryone seems to want) and instead playing the ones that get the most complaints. Yes, i see that there are 4 maps (Uzgha, Turin Castle, Istiniar(Although with the new spawn there should be way more people kept being busy) and sea_raid) that don't allow a full server to keep being busy all the time, but those are exactly the ones i kept seeing on the server because of the xp. So, until the next patch, maybe you should start skipping those maps instead of the more open ones.

[Patoson]

It's true that people change the map because they don't know how to play without a shieldwall, but that's not us posting here

I have a new suggestion then: just make one single open map, like random steppe, with no - I repeat, NO - objects or obstacles and make it the only map in the rotation  At least it would be hilarious.

[Jona]

It's true that people change the map because they don't know how to play without a shieldwall, but that's not us posting here

I have a new suggestion then: just make one single open map, like random steppe, with no - I repeat, NO - objects or obstacles and make it the only map in the rotation  At least it would be hilarious.

I would honestly love this map. There used to be an old village map that was almost entirely open in front (but of course it had a rarely-used xp shack so it got removed) and bots spawned far away. Even on the later waves I could inspire a bunch of guys to charge out and meet the bots in the open field. Was epic fun!

[Patoson]

I have another suggestion: keep a couple of maps of these new ones, and put back in the rotation the old maps, EXCEPT the exploitable ones - Yaragar, Istiniar, Rizi,... (all those with fences, elevated haystack, roof access, etc.).

I appreciate your work with the maps, Fips, but with 30 player limit, some of them are too small. The problem, in my opinion, is that people would rather go "ezmode", make a shieldwall at the small gate, and don't care about 1/3 of the team getting bored / leeching, than letting the bots inside the castle so everyone could fight. We can always blame the map, but every map can be played in many ways.

Still, I think that combining some of the old maps with the new ones and, if possibly, enlarging the access points so more people can fight, would be great.

OR give a percentage of bots in ALL waves a great maul and str build. That way shieldwall might not be unbreakable anymore.

[Fips]

So, with the latest update i'm quite happy with every single map in the cycle. The 2 new ones need some bugfixing, of course, but other than that every map should support space for 30 players now, invisible walls are mostly visible and the maps are more open to begin with. Not saying there shouldn't be even more maps that are more open, but for now everything should work smoothly.
The old village maps won't make it in, though. The ones i thought should have a comeback are already in and i cba to edit more of them, because i generally feel that just using native villages is a little bit boring. I have some other ideas and the map submissions that didn't make it in, are definitely ready for the next patch. Might take a while, but with the current map cycle i don't see a huge problem with that. Plus, there will probably be some bot-changes too, then. Just need Shik for that (That will probably include mauls that actually crushthrough and not the mallet/maul from bandits)

[HappyPhantom]

Well, as long as Fips is happy. 

[Fips]

Well, as long as Fips is happy. 

That was my plan all along.

[Leshma]

Newest addition to map cycle, that huge castle, is full of glitches (places where players or bots can easily get stuck) and too big to actually enjoy DTV. Rounds last too long because it takes ages for bots to actually arrive near Viscount. Also whenever one of them is bugged, it's pain to find it and kill it.

[Patoson]

I'm glad the bugs were fixed and there are two new maps, but I still don't understand why the old maps are out of the rotation.

Is it some kind of revenge from the siege players that didn't enjoy the old DTV? Now we who like open maps have to suffer? Why can't we all be happy with 50-50 type of maps?

[Fips]

Newest addition to map cycle, that huge castle, is full of glitches (places where players or bots can easily get stuck) and too big to actually enjoy DTV. Rounds last too long because it takes ages for bots to actually arrive near Viscount. Also whenever one of them is bugged, it's pain to find it and kill it.

Yeah, i know, it's out of the rotation in the config, just needs a server restart.

@Patoson: Did you read the last post concerning the more open maps and the old ones at all?!

[Patoson]

Sorry if I was a pain in the arse, but it was my way to vent the tension of the moment. I won't spam again. I just don't understand why they were removed in the first place.

[SyderOne]

ILLO, estamos locos? ni pidas perdon que le follen, guiri. X)

[Rico]

A map in which everyone can participate in a nice shieldwallish formation could work this way:

The server counts the number of players and substracts people who spawn with ranged weapons. Based on the number of melee players counted this way, the width of the choke-points is calculated. More melee players: Broader choke points, broader shieldwalls, everyone participates. Less melee players: Tighter choke points, everyone still participates, and formations can still be applied to win against bots and players do not fail every round because of bots running around the shielders and backstabbing them.

Similarly, the width of archer platforms, roofs etc. could be calculated dynamically, based on the number of players using ranged weapons.

Might be hard to implement, but it seems to tackle the problem.

[Fips]

I'm no expert in implementing new mechanics, but that seems nearly impossible to do. And if it isn't, it sure as hell sounds like it's way too much work for a gamemode that's not worth putting hours and hours of dev-work into when they could be implementing new things for strat, battle or siege. You are stuck with Shik and me and there's only so much the both of us can do =P


Anyway, what i still fail to see, is, how exactly did i ruin dtv? If it's ruined, why are there so many people who still play it on an almost daily basis? Player numbers are way higher than they were on the "old" dtv and more constant, if it wasn't for the admin password i'd have a hard time getting in most of the time i start up crpg. That tells me, as a scene manager, that i did something right.
If you have any specific ideas for the current maps to improve them further feel free to tell me them, but the overall layout will probably stay the same, there will just be more maps in upcoming patches.

I cannot satisfy everyone and i knew that from the moment i decided to apply as scene destroyer, so sorry, but a few posts in the forum won't change my mind, only if plenty of people want something changed, like invisible walls for example.

(Those last 2 parts were just general babbling, nothing about you, Rico ^^)

[Leshma]

You told me that huge castle map is removed but it isn't. Map truly sucks, because AI is not good enough to deal with it. Too many angles, too many glitched floors. Takes ages for bots to get to the flag. Also every map where bots climb ladders (siege DTV maps) are bad. DTV, being original defend the village mod isn't made for complex castles.

That other castle, where orange fog is quite common isn't a bad map. But it needs more ballistas pointing at bot spawns and not at narrow passages where they should pass on their way to flag. That's because bots usually never reach those places so those ballistas are mostly useless. If you have time, please put ladders on rooftops and ballista on each rooftop so that players can aim spawns. Why? Because we have too many high ping players and since there is no way to kick them out, better find them something to do, to be useless. Not all of them are unbreakable shield aggro stationary objects.

Maps should be remade in a way so that everyone is involved, but they shouldn't be too hard. Too hard or too slow map means less XP and gold which means less people playing. I know that during the day DTV is already full to the brim, but making lousy maps where no one can earn enough gold or XP isn't the way to deal with that.