Calculate valour separately for both teams

[Suchechka]

 

[CrazyCracka420]

bump

[Dionysus]

Yes, calculate separately for all that is holy. It's a good MVP system, but it needs a little tweaking.

[korppis]

Current system is pretty good. Only problem is when there's some big ass high level & fully loomed clan populating majority of the team, and just obliterating the random peasants that is the other team... but that's banner balance issue.

Valour for losers, Heroism for winners.

[Jona]

It would also be nice to additionally award the consistent well-performing members of the team. Valor currently helps those who have one good round, but could be dragging down the team the rest of them. If the top 1,2 or at most 3 players per team got valor automatically, or some other award (maybe lose 1 multi instead of going to an x1 upon losing), that would greatly alleviate the current stress of the multi system. Is there a reason that someone going 12-1 after a few rounds doesn't deserve to be rewarded while some lucky shielder who stood in the middle of a moshpit and got maybe 2 kills in a single round does?

Countless times I have seen guys get 5, maybe even 6 kills in a round without being rewarded. Now sure, that could be because they are ranged (although even now ranged is getting valor a lot) or simply guys who killed 6 blackbarred enemies. But then they get the same kdr the next round, and the round after... maybe receiving valor once out of the 4 or so rounds per map.

Like I said, i won't pretend to know all the circumstances behind their kdr's, but the fact is, they managed to single-handedly put a dent in the opposing team's force. That should, in my opinion, be rewarded somehow. Maybe they let their teammates beat their prey to a pulp before they struck the final blow, but hey... the last hit counts far more than the first.

[Teeth]

If you consistently get 5-6 kills without getting 30 points I don't know what you are doing. I really doubt this happens as often as you claim, and if it does that does indeed mean they have been getting lucky with landing the killing blow. I have played many a class and getting points and getting kills usually follows one another to a reasonable degree and in my experience getting valour with any class is very easy even with something kill focused like lancer. I don't see why people who got a lot of points but not a lot of kills have been less useful than people landing the killing blow. A shielder standing in the middle of a moshpit is useful, his presence affects the outcome of the moshpit regardless of whether he lands the killing blow. All you killhungry heroes might not understand that, but proximity score is a great feature and those that get points through it often deserved it.

[CrazyCracka420]

If you consistently get 5-6 kills without getting 30 points I don't know what you are doing. I really doubt this happens as often as you claim, and if it does that does indeed mean they have been getting lucky with landing the killing blow. I have played many a class and getting points and getting kills usually follows one another to a reasonable degree and in my experience getting valour with any class is very easy even with something kill focused like lancer. I don't see why people who got a lot of points but not a lot of kills have been less useful than people landing the killing blow. A shielder standing in the middle of a moshpit is useful, his presence affects the outcome of the moshpit regardless of whether he lands the killing blow. All you killhungry heroes might not understand that, but proximity score is a great feature and those that get points through it often deserved it.

It can happen pretty frequently if you're cavalry and not getting any proximity points that I normally would get when fighting on foot.  If I kill 5 people sometimes I'll only have 15-20 points (if I haven't done damage to other people, and all your hits are kills).  Most of the time when I hit someone I will get 3 points for the hit (if I score a clean hit from horseback).  If I hit horse and rider, I'll usually get 6 points.  If I kill a horse (two strikes) I'll end up with 6 points from the killing of horse.

Also getting the killing blow is more important than damaging the enemy (IMO), assuming both did 50% damage to the enemy.  You can still kill and damage people with 50% health, you can't when you're dead.  But this is kind of getting off topic, I kind of like Jona's idea, but the idea of this thread is to revise valor in the easiest way possible. 

It makes no sense to calculate valor for both teams together.  If you're on the losing team and still do a lot of damage, but half the enemy team is alive, it's obviously going to be harder to get double the average score of the enemy team.  This is a no brainer, common sense issue, with a common sense solution.  I just wish the devs would comment if they can implement the change or not (or if they can, but don't want to). 

[Jona]

Calculating it separately for both teams is definitely the easiest way to fix the system, and therefore definitely the most likely to happen. I was just hoping to find some way to reward the guys who do consistently well instead of going on a berserker rage for one round.

Often times I don't charge in with my team and will sneak up behind the enemy. I can bop several guys over the head before they even notice I am around... getting a few easy kills off the bat. Just because I didn't charge in and get a shitton of proximity points doesn't mean I didn't help my team. Each kill is probably 6 points at most nowadays, and often times less than that. Sure, often times I storm the archer's nest and take out those few low-armored targets... but is this really not helping my team? We all know how effective ranged is nowadays, and I know I would be pretty glad if the enemy lost a large concentration of its ranged players while I fight in a melee moshpit.

Imo, it would suffice if there was some kind of bonus given to those who get the killing blow... sure it might promote kill stealing, but it isn't really something that is all that controllable, or much of a problem anyways. As I alluded to earlier, and as huseby pointed out, a half dead guy, a full health guy, and a blackbarred guy are all equally effective in combat. The bonus shouldn't be so much that should all your kills get stolen you have no chance at valor, but it should be just a little boost to help the players on the team that actually cleared the map of enemies.

[CrazyCracka420]

Tydeus said they are re-working the whole xp/gold system and tying it somehow into score partially, and valor will be part of that (calculated separately for each team).  He said the valor rework I'm asking for would be easy enough to change on it's own (until they release the new xp/gold system), but he is not able to make the change.  So we need to get the attention of the right devs to make this happen.

[Teeth]

In my opinion the scoreboard, the k/d counter on the site and general bloodlust create enough incentives to try to kill people quickly. Besides, in my opinion it is the intent that counts. If one guy hits an enemy down to 20% hp with 4 hits and a second guy comes in and gets the last hit, should that last hit really be awarded more than each of the 4 the first guy did? Both the first and the second guy had the same goal, taking out an enemy, it was in a way a stroke of luck that the second guy got the last hit, why would that merit an extra reward? Sure the result of that last hit is more important, but the intent of every hit was the same.

Also awarding last hitting would generate frustration about people snagging your kills, while I now have no qualms about stealing a kill because the other guy gets score from my hit anyway. Which is as it should be because focused killing helps your team. I don't really recognize the scenario you describe at all, think it is quite exceptional if you get 5 kills and not valour score, doesn't really happen to me whether I am cav or infantry.

[Jona]

I don't really recognize the scenario you describe at all, think it is quite exceptional if you get 5 kills and not valour score, doesn't really happen to me whether I am cav or infantry.

If you fight alone, flanking the enemy and whatnot, you typically get less points. This is when it commonly occurs. The problem with the points system, just like the xp system of old, is that it encourages the moshpit playstyle, and doesn't allow for any free-thinkers. Cav, while not necessarily fighting in a moshpit, practically gets points automatically as far as I am concerned. You run over a few guys in a row and get as many points as a melee kill.


I am not saying that if you are a lone wolf you never get valor, it just happens less than it should considering you contribute just as much if not more to  your team.

[San]

Not any more. Proximity points got nerfed to the ground and you get tons of points for killing peasants (many more bonus points on enemy kills + points for final damage).

Some more score changes are on the way, though, that takes into account player performance. Also less points for damaging cav (they are bugged to give full points atm).

[Byrdi]

Not any more. Proximity points got nerfed to the ground and you get tons of points for killing peasants (many more bonus points on enemy kills + points for final damage).

Some more score changes are on the way, though, that takes into account player performance. Also less points for damaging cav (they are bugged to give full points atm).

All the answer to our prayers (except calculated valour separately for team (or only losing team)).