The Zimmerman case

[cmp]

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[Prpavi]

Black man and Spanish/White/Jew get in a fist fight, smaller penis loses, guns get drawn, end of story.

It's all about the penis.

[Erzengel]

Observing is still not against the law. You don't need justification to observe someone. Martin was a black guy who didn't live in the neighborhood walking around leisurely, they'd had break ins in the past, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch whose job it is to, here's the kicker, watch.

So the observation was justified because Martin was black and black people break into houses? You are right, the observation wasn't against the law. It was still completly unjustified.

If his story is right indeed. I don't claim to be 100% sure, only that it's more probable Zimmerman's account of the events is true or at least close to true.

And why exactly is his account more likely to be true?

And yes, there was an eyewitness. You even quoted his story with your Wiki copypaste.

There was an eyewitness, but he only saw a small part of the incident. He neither saw how it started, who began to fight nor how Martin was shot.

I don't know why Martin would try to kill him, why would Martin attack in the first place? Same reason probably.

Who said that Martin started the fight? That's Zimmerman's version. If somebody would chase me I would also confront him and ask for his reasons.

And I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman didn't call the police about 100% of the black people he saw.

Of course not, but 100% of his 50 (!) calls were about black males.

BTW, Zimmerman's great grandfather is black and Zimmerman himself is a latino.

So Latinos can't have prejudices?

Martin died because a smart guy was handling shit in his neighborhood instead of sitting inside and complaining and then used his gun to defend his life when assaulted.

Shooting unarmed teenagers is neither "handling shit" nor smart in my book. Especially since somebody had already called the police.

@cmp

Unfortunately not just a troll. 

[Xant]

So the observation was justified because Martin was black and black people break into houses? You are right, the observation wasn't against the law. It was still completly unjustified.

Must be the first time I hear anyone call observation "unjustified", like it's a no-knock search warrant or something.

And why exactly is his account more likely to be true?

Because of the eye witness account, the calls for help, Zimmerman's past behavior, Zimmerman's recounting of the event, Zimmerman's wounds, etc.

There was an eyewitness, but he only saw a small part of the incident. He neither saw how it started, who began to fight nor how Martin was shot.

No, but he saw Zimmerman in a very bad position taking a beating, and also describes the events that he saw exactly how Zimmerman told how it went.

Who said that Martin started the fight? That's Zimmerman's version. If somebody would chase me I would also confront him and ask for his reasons.

Zimmerman started shouting for help. Not usually the behavior of the aggressor.

Of course not, but 100% of his 50 (!) calls were about black males.

And this is 100% bullshit. It's 46 calls and no, not nearly all of them were about black males.. unless women of unidentified race are black males, pit bulls are black males, white men are black males, hispanic males are black males, loud music is black males, open garage doors are black males, etc etc etc.

Shooting unarmed teenagers is neither "handling shit" nor smart in my book. Especially since somebody had already called the police.

So you can't kill someone if you're unarmed?

[CrazyCracka420]

Neither of you will convince the other of your arguments.  Xant can't help but be wrong, so no point in trying 
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[Xant]

Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.

[Logen]

Neither of you will convince the other of your arguments.

Since when that's the point of internet debates?

[Christo]

Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.

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[CrazyCracka420]

Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.

no u

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[Xant]

no u

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No, I'm not the US justice system...

Try to keep up now, CrazyCracka.

[Erzengel]

Must be the first time I hear anyone call observation "unjustified", like it's a no-knock search warrant or something.

So you wouldn't be annoyed if somebody follows you without any reason and even calls the police?

Because of the eye witness account, the calls for help, Zimmerman's past behavior, Zimmerman's recounting of the event, Zimmerman's wounds, etc.
No, but he saw Zimmerman in a very bad position taking a beating, and also describes the events that he saw exactly how Zimmerman told how it went.
Zimmerman started shouting for help. Not usually the behavior of the aggressor.

Martin might have started the fight (we don't know, but it is possible, so I am not saying that you are wrong on this), but Zimmerman still provoked it with his previous behaviour and then shot an unarmed teenager. Yes he had some grazes but there was hardly a real danger for his life. Shouting for help doesn't proof that he wasn't the agressor (independently in which form), it just shows that he was losing the fight.

And this is 100% bullshit. It's 46 calls and no, not nearly all of them were about black males.. unless women of unidentified race are black males, pit bulls are black males, white men are black males, hispanic males are black males, loud music is black males, open garage doors are black males, etc etc etc.

You are right, not all of his calls were about black males, my fault. A huge percentage still was about them afaik. I am not saying that he definitely had racist prejudices, but it is at least a little bit supicious (see my quote earlier).

So you can't kill someone if you're unarmed?

Sure you can, I still highly doubt that this was Martins' intention.

[Xant]

So you wouldn't be annoyed if somebody follows you without any reason and even calls the police?

If somebody followed me I'd find out why. If they called the police, I wouldn't care...

Martin might have started the fight (we don't know, but it is possible, so I am not saying that you are wrong on this), but Zimmerman still provoked it with his previous behaviour and then shot an unarmed teenager. Yes he had some grazes but there was hardly a real danger for his life. Shouting for help doesn't proof that he wasn't the agressor (independently in which form), it just shows that he was losing the fight.

Provoked, maybe. Would it have happened if Zimmerman hadn't made the call and been interested in Martin? Nope. Was Zimmerman wrong to do so? Nope. Martin being unarmed doesn't really have anything to do with this. Especially if he really did go for Zimmerman's gun. You keep saying we can't know what happened, yet you never acknowledge the uncertainty in the other direction. Shouting for help doesn't prove anything, no, but it's more likely for someone to shout for help if they aren't the aggressor.

[Darkkarma]

From what I saw, it kind of was a public lynching, though not in the manner that a majority of the media would have led you to believe. Zimmerman never really had a chance to be known as anything else but a horrible bigot in America and it really is quite disgusting. What really started bugging me was how from the get-go little subliminal things were being played into coverage of the case. It would have been very easy to assume Zimmerman was a career criminal going by the photo they provided. That in and of itself wouldn't have been so bad were it not for the fact that they made Mr. Martin look like someone from the Future Black Leaders of America Prep Academy.

The guy (Martin) in actuality was struggling and going through some shit; as suggested by his actions (Multiple school suspensions) and facebook posts. Whether or not the "ice tea" in his possession was in fact an Arizona Watermelon Fruit drink is nearly impossible to prove i'd imagine, but given the fact that he had made other facebook posts essentially saying that he knew how to make the popular homemade narcotic drink known as "Lean" going hand in hand with the fact that past history had already proved him to be an outright delinquent leads me to believe that's what he probably had in mind when he purchased those two items as they were two of the three needed ingredients for the drink.

Admittedly, details like the  ones above  bare no real relevance in the case true enough, but it just points toward the main issue I had with how this story was covered by most major media outlets. The lack of Journalistic integrity by the majority of our Major Media Networks was some of the worst i'd seen in recent memory.

As far as we ,the American public are concerned? I don't want to go on a tangent here, but speaking as an African American I can say with certainty that we as a community tend to have this horrible habit of making many Black "victims" in instances like this into Nelson Mandella. Going off of what reports have been provided, it really does seem like two people had the wrong idea about one another,escalating into violence and unfortunately, the death of a young man that probably would have been alright with some decent guidance or help from the right people. I feel for the kid's family, but people need to stop trying make a Martyr out of this young man. Seeing photos like this really does make my skin crawl and takes away from alot of legitimate civil rights activists both past and present.

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[Xant]

The media coverage is one of the worst things about it. Before I did some research, my impression from mainstream media alone was that Zimmerman had walked up to Trayvon and straight up shot him because he thought Trayvon had a gun.

[Swaggart]

Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.

Of which you know fuck all about.