Cavalry in cRPG and Strategus

[Torben]

Hi there!
 Im a dedicated Lancer,  and I agree that any skilled cav has an easy game on the common cRPG battle servers.  Of course we love it
You can nerf all  you want,  the skilled cavman will always have an advantage over the unorganized crowd.  There is no way around it,  because we are faster and therefor are able to exploit any weakness we see in the formations within seconds.

 So I rly aint  pissed at all about the cav nerfes concerning cRPG,  actually I enjoyed the time no one had heirlooms and the battlefield was evened out.

 However I worry about  the upcoming strategus,  aswell as organized clan battles,  where we are mearly a support troup,  our light horses being canon fudder for skilled archers and xbow men,  organized infantry with pikemen watching out for us...

 We need our speed and manuverability to have any role in future battles.  Please take this into consideration when thinking about future changes.

EDIT:
I dont want to start a discussion about the OP cav on the common server,  I stated above that I understand that.  Just wanted to counter the ongoing cav-whine with reason.  Beeing that cav is not OP considering organized battles

[gazda]

Hi there!
 Im a dedicated Lancer,  and I agree that any skilled cav has an easy game on the common cRPG battle servers.  Of course we love it
You can nerf all  you want,  the skilled cavman will always have an advantage over the unorganized crowd.  There is no way around it,  because we are faster and therefor are able to exploit any weakness we see in the formations within seconds.

 So I rly aint  pissed at all about the cav nerfes concerning cRPG,  actually I enjoyed the time no one had heirlooms and the battlefield was evened out.

 However I worry about o the upcoming strategus,  aswell as organized clan battles,  where we are mearly a support troup,  our light horses being canon fudder for skilled archers and xbow men,  organized infantry with pikemen watching out for us...

 We need our speed and manuverability to have any role in future battles.  Please take this into consideration when thinking about future changes.

thats pretty much why many cav players have top scores

[Tomas_of_Miles]

+1
Teamwork is lacking, and the lack thereof clouds the minds of those who suicide out there.

[Nessaj]

CRPG: Because all those silly people with pikes are going after infantry instead of horsies.

I personally don't think CAV needs a buff or change in Strategus at all (based on their performance in CRPG), what you are asking for is being able to take on even organized crowds on your own, in Strategus cav should be used as you would in real life, e.g. organize something WITH your infantry to flank/ambush or whatever, for example having an infantry group attack and as soon as they're engaged cav moves in to clean house because everyone is focused on the infantry, pretty much what a lot of cav do on the battle servers, wait for people to engage and voilà free buffet, in Strat your enemy most likely have people organized to watch for cav but that's what you as a team need to counter.

[Torben]

My friend,  you misunderstood.  Im not asking to be a one man army,  im only suggesting to do the balancing not only regarding cRPG (with all the cRPG whine going on) but also strategus.  As im a cavman i can only speak for this class.
 As of now I see things balanced,  but I wanted to counter the ongoing whine about making horses even slower,  less manuverable etc.

edit:  ill put that in OP

[Bulzur]

I don't see how cav can be usefull when sieging a town, but i'm pretty sure a well organized charge can easily slaughter infantry in plains and such.

At the moment, cavs are ruling battles WITHOUT being organized, when facing UNORGANIZED infantry.
When this is fixed, i don't see how it will nerf an organized cavalry charge. Of course, an organized charge into an organized pikewall will always be a fail, and that's normal.

[Tennenoth]

I don't see how cav can be usefull when sieging a town, but i'm pretty sure a well organized charge can easily slaughter infantry in plains and such.

At the moment, cavs are ruling battles WITHOUT being organized, when facing UNORGANIZED infantry.
When this is fixed, i don't see how it will nerf an organized cavalry charge. Of course, an organized charge into an organized pikewall will always be a fail, and that's normal.

Bulzur makes the point that you put into your own text. You said you fight unorganised crowds but on strategus you become a support class, why? Because people in strategus are organised, so you cannot pick people off so easily. No class will always be "the one to go for" or will always have an advantage despite what some people say, I mean the number of times you've tried charging at me, i've shot your horse dead and managed to get the upper hand for a few seconds is countless, the same with the number of times that you've just shoved the lance through my head, i've sworn at you and you've carried on to kill a couple more people.
This also points towards the fact that I will shoot at the people at the top of the enemy scoreboard because I know that they're either going to be cav or 2 handers/polearms, my two worst nightmares.

And besides, strategus isn't running as of yet so we can't completely tell ;)

[Kafein]

The way to balance cav certainly isn't increasing maneuver and speed, which are allready too high. Simply no. Buff charge and armor instead, lower the upkeep for armoured horses... Buffing light cav even further would be idiotic. In Strat battles, light cav will and is supposed to have a minimal role.

Also, don't forget organizing cav is much much harder than organizing archers and footmen. It takes a good bit of discipline to get the basics done, like not zigzagging as usual (because it blocks teammates and you want to keep people very close to each other), charging only from one side (because cav collision usually means death for both) and so on. A simple turn is usually a nightmare in a cav group.

[Sharky]

well, i think we'll see how the strategus battles will go.
In old strategus cav had merely a supporting role, and using it from frontal (and even side and rear) charges was impossible, while heavy horses weren't affordable to buy. But now that bows are nerfed maybe we got more chances.
But yes i always tough that strat needs a different balance then crpg, not only for cav but also for other classes as well.

[Chagan_Arslan]

i just hope there will be possibility to play open field maps in strategus, not just village/castle defense maps, than it might be somewhat useful although it might be a bit hard with the 300 reach pikes in the enemy team

[Torben]

well, i think we'll see how the strategus battles will go.
In old strategus cav had merely a supporting role, and using it from frontal (and even side and rear) charges was impossible, while heavy horses weren't affordable to buy. But now that bows are nerfed maybe we got more chances.
But yes i always tough that strat needs a different balance then crpg, not only for cav but also for other classes as well.

woha,  sharky seems to be the only one getting my point.  is my post written so damn criptic? Im saying that all the cav-whining shouldnt be accounted for in terms of cav in starategus,  because there (and in any organized battle),  the cav isnt op.
 Started the thread not because of made but future changes.
and yeah,  more hitpins instead of speed/manuver is a good way aswell,  as this patch already did it.

tenne,  i rly dont want a class to go for,  i want everybody to have strengths and weaknesses.  mine are good archers like you,  and used to be throwers.  im sad they god nerfed so bad although i hated them.  i just want a fighting chance in an organized battle not to have to resolve to solemly backstabbing and sneaking and whatever.  this still is possible now,  if the cavtactics are in place. Rly,  just a counter post to all the whining.

other way around,  do you guys think cav should be nerved?

[justjr]

I think we need more forms to organize the army on MP battles.
Like a commander, or divide by groups like in battlefield.
Pople just dont play their roles.

[RandomDude]

In the same way that an organised team has a better defence against cav, an organised team should be able to better use their own cavalry at the same time.

I havent really played Cav but I'm speaking from a 2h players point of view who's been in many strat battles - as many as most and I would say Cav is played differently than on a pub server.

I think it will be harder for the individual but thats the same for every class imo in strat. You have to be more teamworky (unless you're Dima_Urban) to be successful.

[Michael]

Torben (and all other competent horsemen I know) get 98 % of their kills by backstabbing unaware infantry. Thats how cav is played in crpg, because its too weak to fight face to face.

In organized battles noone would hire horsemen because a horse is simply too expensive to get killed by two arrows.

The only place I see for horsemen in Strategus is to go after enemy archers that are running away from shielders.

As long its only allowed to fight with your main in Strategus, noone who can play another class will make his cav char as its main, you cant use it in sieges, and it needs tons of awareness to be not a total fail in Strategus open battles.

Also, when you have problems dealing with Dima, hire me and make sure noone interrupts.

[Gnjus]

TBH if the new Strategos gets even remotely similar to the old one (70% bowmen, 20% crossbowmen, 10% cannon fodder) you wont get to live long and prosperous in it, Torben.....and especially your beloved horse. On battle servers you can enjoy your backstabbing due to huge numbers of blind morons who cant be bothered to shoot the horses or watch their back but in an organized battle where they concentrate on you - your destination is Valhalla.
I do, however, believe that even there (Strat) you'll do your job cause most of the battles will be filled with desperate randoms who got nothing better to do but apply as mercenaries for every battle they can get their hands on, and they get hired cause people of the clans have real life responsibilities or the clans simply lack people on their rosters . For you it all depends on numbers: how many people of the same clan will stand on the other side of the battlefield. If its mostly clanmates filled with radnomers - you die.....if its the other way around - you win.