[stats] more speed for heavy lance

[Torben]

Holla!  qué tal??

The internal balance of lances is off a tad.
A speed buff to the heavy lance would make it once again a great weapon without making it superior to the lance,  however a real option.
Its low speed alone already makes it quite predictable.
In combination with its low damage, its use is even more limited as it doesnt do damage outside of said sweet spot. 
Because of its predictability,  its sweet spot can easily be outmaneuvered by the target.


I suggest the speed buff instead of a damage buff,  to keep the L and HL balanced and an option for people who prefer one or the other.

The speed buff to the HL will not buff total damage done on a successful hit. 
The speed buff will however lay the success of a hit more into the hands of the lancer.
It will be less about surprising the opponent,  and more about landing a hit skillfully.


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Type:Polearm
Requirement:11 strength
Weight:1.8
Slots:2
Upkeep:679 gold
Shop price:9,702 gold
Value:4,851 gold
Speed:74 84
Length:190
Thrust:24 pierce
Swing:17 blunt

[Kafein]

I call bias, you have obvious financial interest in this

[Moncho]

A small speed increase would be fine, but 10 points? I think that might be a bit excessive.

[Life]

I think a speed buff to the heavy lance would be great. Adding 10 speed could make it a viable ground weapon as well.

[Torben]

I call bias, you have obvious financial interest in this

howabout me being a heavy lancer?
double bias ftw! 

[Inglorious]

The slow speed increases the damage cap for the HL from horseback through timing of hit. Hypothetically, you could score a hit that does more damage than the other thrustable lances due to this factor. If you speed it up, sure on foot it would be a somewhat more viable polearm, but the damage gain from horseback would be nullified and you would indirectly nerf heavy lancers.

Info Source: Devilize, ShinOCK, self testing

[Torben]

The slow speed increases the damage cap for the HL from horseback through timing of hit. Hypothetically, you could score a hit that does more damage than the other thrustable lances due to this factor. If you speed it up, sure on foot it would be a somewhat more viable polearm, but the damage gain from horseback would be nullified and you would indirectly nerf heavy lancers.

Info Source: Devilize, ShinOCK

whats a damage cap?  if youre talking about speed bonus,  it aint true.

[Inglorious]

No no, not speed bonus. I'm talking about the lance projectile time/hit ratios. Look into the game files and do some math, if you feel like being a nerd like me 

Weapon stat damage>lance projectile flight time>speed of lance projectile>lance projectile time of impact>movement speed bonus>speed of weapon>overall flight time from release of thrust>powerstrike modifier>effective WPF = overall damage

Should look something like that when you do the maths. I hate math.

[Torben]

No no, not speed bonus. I'm talking about the lance projectile time/hit ratios. Look into the game files and do some math, if you feel like being a nerd like me 

hm,  I think i get what you mean...  maybe game in NA is still like it was a year ago or so,  but here things have changed and a quicker lance gives you the option to at least hit an agi guy that knows what hes doing.  My 2cents,  but ofc not end to all means.

[Switchtense]

im not some uber pro cav, only played lancer for 1gen, and to me the HL is absolutely useless
i always only used the L and GL cause the speed of the HL (i had around 135wpf) was rediculously slow, so i think especially new cav players would benefit from the speed buff
and as it was mentioned, the generel damage output might be nerfed by that, thats mostly the case for experienced cav players, and i guess those have actually enough experience to still hit the sweetspot

[MURDERTRON]

Ideally I'd like to see a way for lancers with the proper WPF in pole arms to be able to useful while those without it will feel useless.  But how could that be implemented?

[MURDERTRON]

The slow speed increases the damage cap for the HL from horseback through timing of hit. Hypothetically, you could score a hit that does more damage than the other thrustable lances due to this factor. If you speed it up, sure on foot it would be a somewhat more viable polearm, but the damage gain from horseback would be nullified and you would indirectly nerf heavy lancers.

Info Source: Devilize, ShinOCK, self testing

Paul claims this isn't true.  I can't say for sure, because I'm too busy glancing.

[CrazyCracka420]

I say no.  Don't increase the speed.  Just bump the damage up one more base damage.   Heavy Lance used to be 26p damage (non-loomed), it was nerfed to 23.  Now it sits at 24.  I think moving it up to 25 would be fine and justified.  I'd still use the lance though, I think it's a better all around weapon (better at killing infantry, get more swings per minute in, and can do more damage).  This would put the heavy lance back into the "top spot" for lancers and would justify it's more expensive price.

[San]

I'm not sure if speed should be increased above 80. +5 speed and +1 damage sounds good to me.

Ideally I'd like to see a way for lancers with the proper WPF in pole arms to be able to useful while those without it will feel useless.  But how could that be implemented?

Only way is probably to simply maintain a higher difference in effective wpf, meaning that in the same armor (of all weights) and different wpf the difference should remain the same. Currently, people with high wpf are losing so much from average levels of armor that it's not much different than people with low wpf. I had ~95 wpf in polearms and used a pre-nerf heavy-lance and switched post-nerf to lance and had minimal problems after getting used to it. High wpf polearms on skilled players did pose a problem with timing, but I feel that this difference should be more noticeable with smaller wpf differences, not a massive one like 160+ vs 95.

[Rebelyell]

I call bias, you have obvious financial interest in this

maybe but H lance suck a lot anyway