Author Topic: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community... [EDITED]  (Read 3767 times)

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Offline Falka

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2013, 08:14:22 pm »
0
You're so optimistic about the new ball of shit the devs are working on. I on the other hand realize that if they can't tend to the cattle they have now, why would they take on another?

Maybe they're busy with their "new ball of shit", eh?

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2013, 08:15:32 pm »
+5
You're so optimistic about the new ball of shit the devs are working on. I on the other hand realize that if they can't tend to the cattle they have now, why would they take on another?

They're working on the new ball.  They've done one hell of a great job keeping this ball inflated and shiny as long as they have.  crpg is easily the best mod of Warband, and is still one of the best multiplayer games around. 
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2013, 08:31:13 pm »
+2
1-4 summarised as lack of class system results in OP characters that can do everything.

Don't agree with that because everyone is skill and stat capped which creates unique classes for each player. You can't be a great horse rider as well as a great foot soldier and great archer etc. You sacrifice one thing for another. This only works when each unique ability requires points put into something though, OR if you can't physically use or carry multiple role's items at the same time. Most things in the game do need you to sacrifice one thing for another, but it is too easy to have multiple roles when it comes to ranged with good melee. I don't believe in rock/paper/scissors though, ideally each class should at least be able to defend against other classes even if they have a poor chance to damage them, as long as they play well. Then teamwork should come in so the classes work together to take out threats

There is generally good balance when it comes to intra melee balance. Fighting between different melee guys is not totally impossible, but improvement does need to be made with some classes. This is when the game is most balanced

5+6, flavour of the month and nerfs/buffs

Keeps the game fresh, nerfs/buffs make for more fun gameplay if they are warranted. People gonna people, can't really stop them using trends (doesn't mean something is OP just because people use it). Could do with a more active and varied item balance team, but the actual devs are busy with their next game

7+8, hodgepodge of gear, gold

I like that the game is only semi realistic, I'd rather have more gear variety than make everyone wear the historically correct gear. I wish there were more heraldic armours so we had even more ways to distinguish players. Gold is actually very valuable to me. If you want to never use looms and you retire then you will be swimming in gold, but thankfully the game isn't balanced so much on repair costs.

9, depth

There is shit tonnes of depth in cRPG. If someone never played Warband there is even more to talk about. Strat, character builds, loads of ways to look nearly unique, big battles with actual team work, best medieval fighting game on the market etc. You can still improve as a player years after you started, and learn new stuff

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Offline Micah

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2013, 10:09:03 pm »
+5
(click to show/hide)
I do disagree here.
A core factor thats making the game as addictive as it is, is that you have to invest alot of time into leveling your char and build it to its final, planned build - aka. you work for it.
Without this factor - meaning, you could respec without cost - the aquired level and the picked build loses alot of "meaning" if you can change it arbitrarily ~ or to be more specific "the buildorder" for your char - since you will propably plan ahead. on how you spend skillpoints "on the way" to the desired maxlevel (be it 31 or 35)...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 10:12:36 pm by Micah »
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Offline Dionysus

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2013, 10:19:17 pm »
0
Sorry, folks. Wrote this out late in the morning when I couldn't sleep, so sorry about the structure. I'll add in a concrete question for you to answer.

I never meant to come off as complaining. To Warborn specifically, I am not complaining about any weapon in particular. The first four points outline what I feel is a lack of role in this game. Without classes, the game becomes a rock-paper-scissors game where rock, paper, and scissors can always beat each other, just in their own unique way.

The point of my thread is, shockingly enough, not to complain. I am a trying to stir up discussion. I made nine points for any of you to cite and comment on, add on to, or refute.

Your first 4 points are basically complaining that people can do well with any weapon any class. Isn't that the point of crpg, build your class your own way and rape with it.

Certainly did not mean to come off as complaining, but I had originally written it has a lack of classes in general.

I don't understand why people have to think so hard about the damn game.

1) It's a game that literally created a genre by itself.

2) It's a great game and imitators out there have all failed to match its prowess by far.

3) The mod makes it a lot greater.

4) The mod is fun.

5) All classes and builds are perfectly viable as long as you know how to play.

6) There is no point in meticulously criticizing every single bit of it.

7) Just have fun dammit.

I don't think the mod isn't fun, I just am curious as to how other feel about builds and classes, if there are any.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 11:04:12 pm by Dionysus »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2013, 02:13:40 am »
+1
You're so optimistic about the new ball of shit the devs are working on. I on the other hand realize that if they can't tend to the cattle they have now, why would they take on another?


Might have something to do with him reading regular dev news/feedback/etc on that new ball of shit, and you being left in the dark.


*shrugs*


It's a whole different animal; manhours, care, feedback, etc, all different.
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Offline Kalam

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2013, 08:26:53 am »
+1
EDIT: I don't know if its the constant negativity due to the usual discussions on the forums, but I want to point out that this is not the product of X class killing me repeatedly. This is about the effectiveness of every class, and whether you think it is balanced and fair. I am not complaining; I merely want to discuss our opinions on the nature of cRPG's gameplay.

Hello, everyone. I spent some time writing everything out into paragraphs, but I don't want to waste anyone's time. I have listed some things that have irked me for quite some time, most if not all of which my fellow clanmates can recite due to how incessantly I repeat them. These following bullets are a list of issues I have with the mod and its gameplay, and I would like to stress these are my observations, biased and rose-tinted. Please, share your opinions with me.
  • Everyone can be a hero, because every playstyle is viable. Every playstyle has its dangers, none of which are incredibly debilitating because...
  • ... there are is a standard 30 points to be distributed to other skills, which is far too many to force players into a build.*
  • The model of gameplay is based off Native singleplayer, where the player is supposed to be a hero.
  • There is no class system, creating a nebulous mess of playstyles which cannot be balanced.
  • Community trends caused by the "flavors of the month" (This has been buffed, so let's all use it!)
  • Buffed and nerfed weapons for seemingly arbitrary reasons. (Why is a voulge so terrible?)
  • OSP resources adding dynamic armors, covering varieties of armor and weapons that were not contemporaries by 1000 years. Why would anyone wear chainmail when it is possible to wear 15th-16th century Italian and German steel armors? Probably because of how much money it costs...
  • ... which is negated after you sell your first loom point.
  • There is no depth to the mod; how do I explain this mod to people who have never heard of Warband?
* I would like to take this opportunity to ask the community: is the great thing about cRPG that the player can do whatever he or she wants? If so, where does the blame fall when people cry out daily that something is overpowered? Is it the gameplay? The stats? The builds? The player? If it is really the player, what can he or she do to better his or her experience? How can that be balanced while affording players the freedoms they have now?

Unless the developers want to lose a tremendous portion of the community, there is nothing that can really be done to change the core gameplay. That's why we all stayed in the first place, right?

I would love to hear what you guys have to say, and thanks for taking the time out to give it a read.

Am I the only one who wanted a 13th-century combat simulator?

If you are confused because of my nine-point rambling, answer this question:
How is combat actually balanced? Do classes have specific roles, or is everyone supposed to be essentially a one man army?

1. because almost every time you 'die' in cRPG it's linked to a mistake you made.
2. Players are forced into a build more than they used to be. I'd argue to comfort with their individual playstyles is what allows hybrids and min maxers to exist, as opposed to regular specialized builds. This came with time. I'm not sure how to fix AND keep a similar dynamic. I'm not sure that it's a problem.
3. Yes, but nowhere did you feel more like a hero than cRPG in the old days, when you took on 13 people on won daily. They've changed that, and I think it's made cRPG a much more accessible game. The every-player-is-a-hero dynamic is key to most multiplayer games anyway. Yes, it doesn't need to be, but again, I'm not sure that it's a problem.
4. Yes, but FREEDOM. They can also be balanced individually, which is honestly enough at this.
5. This is endemic in all PvP centered games. Only way to stop it is permanent death MMO.
6. The reasons go back to past balance issues. Most nerfs/buffs do.
7. If you saw cRPG 2010, you'd realize that realism < fun. However, they did make a sort of commitment toward more realism, so I can only assume it's like the SCA. At least there are no period chocolate chip cookies.
8. A medieval game with persistent leveling and a great combat system.

You're not the only one, but I like what I found anyway. I know it's not, and never will be a simulator style game, though.

They've changed the gameplay significantly in one mega patch before. Most of the players stayed then. I imagine the same thing would happen again.

Things are balanced around individual gameplay. Funnest game mode, after all. Okay, real teamwork is great, but getting that is next to impossible. I don't remember seeing a perfectly executed crossfire + cav screen and shielder hammer+anvil this year. We're just too jaded and lazy as a community to do that, at the moment.

Offline Akynos

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Re: Some points I would like to share and discuss with the community...
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2013, 02:27:15 pm »
0
. And Skono still says that I play 1h no shield only cause it's OP  :(

I didn't say that. I said that when you use 1h you win mainly because you are skilled enough to use it to its full capacity. Since the full capacity of it is OP in my view ( thrusts nudges spam blablabla) that makes your gameplay OP as well. Don't get me wrong, you are an excellent player, but what gets on my nerves is that you do not win most duels because you outplay, but because you 'abuse' the weapon. But hey, that doesn't mean that you're the only one, hell I also abuse 2h thrust by facehugging someone, looking at the sun then releasing ;) So I am not really raging vs you, but rather at what the weapon offers. When you played 2h vs me it was balanced ( save the WPF) and, to be honest, much more fun :)

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Offline Joseph Porta

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I am so confused where is the joke? I cant see it..
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Offline MURDERTRON

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+3
Most of this thread can be summarized by: Dionysus is a history nerd and would prefer historical accuracy over fun, which is why I secretly hate him.  Luckily his opinion is not a popular one within the community.

And if you really want a historically accurate game, you should go play a farming simulator.  There were many more peasants than knights.  But I guess you're the type to wonder what it would be like to give birth at age 11 then die immediately afterwards due to complications and shitty medicine... In first person.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 06:47:57 pm by MURDERTRON »
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Offline Legs

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Most of this thread can be summarized by: Dionysus is a history nerd and would prefer historical accuracy over fun, which is why I secretly hate him.  Luckily his opinion is not a popular one within the community.

And if you really want a historically accurate game, you should go play a farming simulator.  There were many more peasants than knights.  But I guess you're the type to wonder what it would be like to give birth at age 11 then die immediately afterwards due to complications and shitty medicine... In first person.

Have you ever played Real Lives?

Realistic character generation (etc) can actually be really fucking cool, and leads to emergent gameplay that you wouldn't experience if you were just playing some generic white male all the time.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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I play not being a white male everyday of my life.  Check your privelage.
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Offline Tomas_Miles_again

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I play not being a white male everyday of my life.  Check your privelage.
Not sure if serious or just a parody of PoC/minority gender identity emerging from social media with a strong voice and identity.

Offline Dionysus

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Most of this thread can be summarized by: Dionysus is a history nerd and would prefer historical accuracy over fun, which is why I secretly hate him.  Luckily his opinion is not a popular one within the community.

And if you really want a historically accurate game, you should go play a farming simulator.  There were many more peasants than knights.  But I guess you're the type to wonder what it would be like to give birth at age 11 then die immediately afterwards due to complications and shitty medicine... In first person.

I don't remember mentioning anything about history besides the anachronistic armor being unbalanced due to the lack of repairs.

I don't want realism; that's what the Víkingr mod is for. Other RPG's generally have class systems which allow for more broad balance. X kills Y kills Z kills X, but in this game, that doesn't exist. I asked if that's good.
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Offline MURDERTRON

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+2
I don't remember mentioning anything about history besides the anachronistic armor being unbalanced due to the lack of repairs.

I don't want realism; that's what the Víkingr mod is for. Other RPG's generally have class systems which allow for more broad balance. X kills Y kills Z kills X, but in this game, that doesn't exist. I asked if that's good.

That doesn't exist in such a linear format in this game because its extremely skill driven.  For example, you have archers taking out dedicated melee players in melee.  This isn't a strategy game.  Its like in a shooter game,  A sniper at range should have the advantage on a pointman with a shotgun.  But it doesn't always work out that way.

Not sure if serious or just a parody of PoC/minority gender identity emerging from social media with a strong voice and identity.

I'm not white.  Just ask Jason.
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