Additional run tier when holding block/chamber

[San]

It's somewhat odd that you have to release block and run a little bit to catch up to a backpedaling holder, or if you barely miss someone you're chasing and the gap increases by a fair margin. I propose an additional run tier when moving forward and holding attack/blocking for a few seconds for both manual block and shield.

Run modes should smoothly switch as long as you continue to move forward.

According to Waltf4

Moving forward while blocking or chambering an attack increased run time by 17% + or - 1%. Back peddling increased run time by 52% + or - 2%.

17% is like losing 5 athletics when increasing the running times by 17% on the graphs for higher athletics. After a few seconds, I think it should increase to a 10% decrease, closer to losing 3 athletics + 9 agi. I think it will make chasing and shield charges a little better and is a decent alternative to nerfing backpedaling/ranged movement. Most melee fights will be untouched unless you're fighting a supreme packpedaler.

[Phew]

This issue is especially apparent when fighting agility long spear abusers. Because their stupid thrust wiggles are active for full damage during the entire animation, you end up spending almost the entire fight holding block->you move too slow to catch them->you have to block more.

So yes, a mechanic that allowed faster run speed than usual for the first second or two while blocking+moving forward would be a welcome tool to use against S-keyers without directly nerfing backpedaling.

[MURDERTRON]

Nah bro, let's not make great maulers even faster.

[Elindor]

This issue is especially apparently when fighting agility long spear abusers. Because their stupid thrust wiggles are active for full damage during the entire animation, you end up spending almost the entire fight holding block->you move too slow to catch them->you have to block more.

I have never agreed with something you've said more than this Phew.
Sometimes I just run at them, facehug, and hold downblock exclusively just so others can take them down lol.
They jump/spin around like a fish out of water trying to stab everyone 2 ft from them (which should be physically impossible), but it just keeps hitting my held downblock lol.

[Relit]

I have never agreed with something you've said more than this Phew.
Sometimes I just run at them, facehug, and hold downblock exclusively just so others can take them down lol.
They jump/spin around like a fish out of water trying to stab everyone 2 ft from them (which should be physically impossible), but it just keeps hitting my held downblock lol.

How many Pikes/Longspears do you even see in NA? I can count on one hand the amount of dedicated guys and maybe 1 (me) could be considered a agi build (21 agi, 7 ath). The class is so little played and honestly S-keying as a piker/LS user is really not a good idea because A. it does very low damage when backpadeling and B. To catch anybody off guard we have to hold the stab and wait for a opening, thereby slowing us down even more. I usually just turn around and book it the moment I start getting rushed by a dedicated downblock holder.

It is better to circle a enemy or try to 'dance' with them a bit so they miss and you can get a decent stab on their head.

Edit: Yeah the Longspear is notorious about those pointblank stab spins, they happen much less frequently with the pike but they are no more ridiculous than pointblank 2h stabs (or those extended reach ones that hang out there forever and still hit really hard).

[oohillac]

Edit: Yeah the Longspear is notorious about those pointblank stab spins, they happen much less frequently with the pike but they are no more ridiculous than pointblank 2h stabs (or those extended reach ones that hang out there forever and still hit really hard).

All of my +1s especially this part.  I get bitched at for bullshit stabs by people who have not only a wonky stab of their own but also three other fucking attack directions.

@ San

Can the engine handle this though?  Sounds complicated.

[Tears of Destiny]

Heaven Forbid longspears can pull the exact same bullcrap pointblank shotgun stabs that literally every other weapon that stabs can do too...


Anywho, to the OP, that does sound like something I'd be interested in, and I'm wondering if WSE could allow us to have those different run modes.

[Phew]

Edit: Yeah the Longspear is notorious about those pointblank stab spins, they happen much less frequently with the pike but they are no more ridiculous than pointblank 2h stabs (or those extended reach ones that hang out there forever and still hit really hard).

All three stabs are equally absurd now, but someone thrusting past you with a sword and dragging the blade into you at least looks like it might actually hurt IRL. The long spear/pike just look particularly dumb because the side of a thin wooden pole doesn't look like something that could hurt anyone, nonetheless kill them in 2-3 hits.

For me at least, I just want to play a game where the combat mechanics look realistic. All of the mechanics I complain about (hiltslash, lolstab, huge kickcone, etc) aren't so much balance issues as they just look dumb. It's unfortunate that to be effective, you have to run around acting like some kind of rabid ballerina.

[Tears of Destiny]

For me at least, I just want to play a game where the combat mechanics look realistic.

Non of our combat looks realistic. Nobody in their right minds "blocks" any weapon with another instead of deflecting, blocking is a great way to tire yourself out, feel like you hit a brick wall with a baseball bat, and damage your weapon.

[Relit]

All three stabs are equally absurd now, but someone thrusting past you with a sword and dragging the blade into you at least looks like it might actually hurt IRL. The long spear/pike just look particularly dumb because the side of a thin wooden pole doesn't look like something that could hurt anyone, nonetheless kill them in 2-3 hits.

For me at least, I just want to play a game where the combat mechanics look realistic. All of the mechanics I complain about (hiltslash, lolstab, huge kickcone, etc) aren't so much balance issues as they just look dumb. It's unfortunate that to be effective, you have to run around acting like some kind of rabid ballerina.

Well if its any consolation to you the LS/Pike class is extremely rare in battle and almost non-existent in siege. It does have a better showing in strat due to ease of use and the need for at-least nominal protection from cav, so you will not have to see the 'unrealistic' nature of it very much. Unlike 2h which is a very popular class and seem to pop up everywhere. As for balancing with the Pike/LS, if they fixed the animations a bit and made the wiggle harder to pull off that would be okay but it would drive the class even more into the current abysmal numbers its currently at.

[oohillac]

even if they removed the ability to stab everything but stationary targets standing exactly two metres away I'd still use the longspear just to piss the haters off

[Relit]

even if they removed the ability to stab everything but stationary targets standing exactly two metres away I'd still use the longspear just to piss the haters off

I'm with you (with a Pike, the real Mans long pointy stick).

[Phew]

I think this proposed change should only apply to holding blocks, not attacks. There are already too many players whose primary tactic is to hold attacks indefinitely to bore opponents into getting impatient and dropping their block. I'm not sure these people should be rewarded with faster run speed.

There is a popular suggestion to adjust the damage bonus from holds to decay into a damage penalty after a few seconds. That way someone that holds their attack for 5+ seconds would be punished with a likely glance. If this was implemented, then San's suggestion would be fine for attack holds as well.

[San]

I originally had it for just blocks and changed it mid-post, admittedly not much thought with the chambering part.

[Eugen]

[...] Edit: Yeah the Longspear is notorious about those pointblank stab spins, they happen much less frequently with the pike but they are no more ridiculous than pointblank 2h stabs (or those extended reach ones that hang out there forever and still hit really hard).

Why those things dont get fixed? Its really disturbing and just plain silly since day one.