Author Topic: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread  (Read 2702 times)

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Offline adieumnode

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Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« on: October 17, 2013, 05:46:26 am »
+7
Changing both the Heavy Lance and couch damage should never have happened, the person who decided that it was a good idea (most likely Tydeus) obviously does not understand the way Cavalry work in this game at all and what makes them legitimately overpowered when compared to other classes.

Reducing the damage of the Heavy Lance, and couch damage for all others didn't make lancers any less overpowered than they ever were, because what makes them so strong is the fact that they can be anywhere on the map extremely fast and instantly change odds in a fight to be favourable for your team, i.e there is a 3v3 happening you run there bump the enemy stab one and suddenly your team gets a ton of free hits on them and should win the fight.

Changing the actual damage of the Lance only succeeded in making lancers extremely tedious and boring to play, I have tried literally every type of lancing build since the Heavy Lance damage got nerfed and it still is the best lance if you want to actually beat people who can see you, to run at them and outrange their weapons however it takes you 4-5-6 hits or even more to kill them no matter what your build is. The only thing this does is make people use the higher damage weapons because it's amazingly unfun to take so many hits to kill someone but the playstyle of those is to attack people who don't see you, people who are unaware or engaged in fighting since their range is considerably shorter. Which you know is what makes Cavalry very annoying to play against, the ones that don't ever attack you until you are engaged with an enemy or when you don't see them.

I don't think many people legitimately complained when Heavy Lance users would engage them head on and give them a chance to kill them did they? if you got killed by someone using a heavy lance when you can see them that is entirely your own fault. Obviously I know if the heavy lance damage got boosted again most people who use it would still play the "backstabbing" cavalry style even if it's not the best weapon for it, just because most cav players are completely trash and rely on stabbing people from behind for any kills. But then you should be thankful they were using a heavy lance and not something like an arabian cavalry sword or long espada which would do more damage if you got caught unawares by it.

Also I forgot to mention earlier but cavalry who use the heavy lance are now pathetic against ranged because even the lightest armoured archer can take 3 lance hits, wheras other cavalry are just as good against them as ever.

The damage of the Heavy Lance should either be boosted up back to what it was, and the couch damage stayed nerfed or the couch damage multiplier should be boosted back up to where it can 1shot people consistently again and the lance stay nerfed. I prefer the actual damage of the lance being boosted because couches are much less skill based to hit with.



For actually nerfing Cavalry as a class, the things that should be looked at are horse stats and not the damage of the weapons. Reducing the ability for all horses to tank damage would be a pretty good start, so if a cavalry player makes any mistake (by getting their horse hit in melee) it would always die to even 1handers or ect. Removing bumps fully would also be a very good idea, so horses can only "stagger" people in that they can't block and attack while the horse runs through them instead of fully knocking them over and doing tons of damage which is brokenly good in many situations.

Offline GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 05:55:03 am »
0
Cavalry is done being nerfed now, thanks.

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Offline adieumnode

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 06:00:16 am »
0
Cavalry is done being nerfed now, thanks.
Let it also be known that Devilize can still top servers with lance cavalry so the class isn't purely broken. It just takes some skill now.

Devilize is a trash cavalry player. It's not hard to top servers with the heavy lance still it's just exceedingly boring so everyone who was good at it (read: not devilize) respecced.

Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 07:39:48 am »
-2
It's not hard to top servers with the heavy lance still...




...


Such an excellent case and foundation to build your argument on why the damage needs to be reverted  :rolleyes:
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 07:41:19 am »
+7
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Offline Xant

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 08:00:25 am »
0



...


Such an excellent case and foundation to build your argument on why the damage needs to be reverted  :rolleyes:
His whole point is that the damage nerf doesn't make them less overpowered. Therefore it follows that it would still be easy to top the scoreboards with a heavy lance build.
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2013, 08:02:33 am »
0
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2013, 09:01:31 am »
+2
The heavy lance feels underpowered to me, but then again I use a default non-heirloomed lance, with only 4 power strike, and am spoiled by how good it was pre-nerf. Often when I hit people with it, it feels like I'm just kind of poking them and not actually dealing any meaningful amount of damage, especially at low speed.

Increasing the thrust damage by one measly point would be a very welcome change and would probably make lancers happy without upsetting the delicate cRPG ecosystem. Either way I don't really care because I'm getting a masterworked heavy lance and increasing my power strike so that I can skewer scrubs like back in the old days.

Let it also be known that Devilize can still top servers with lance cavalry so the class isn't purely broken. It just takes some skill now.

Devilize is not a good example. His insanely low ping (~12) means that he can do things that other players just can't.

If some oldschool turbolancer like Huey, TommyHu, Hobb, etc, was still tearing it up that would be one thing, but Devilize... just... no.
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2013, 09:56:07 am »
0
even giving it more speed would be a great buff,  its just such a predictable weapon atm,  and the little damage output makes it so very important to land the hit perfectly.  which however the target can elude because of aforementioned slow ass predictability.
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2013, 11:03:13 am »
+9
His insanely low ping (~12) means that he can do things that other players just can't.
Maybe you should stop pretending that 12 ping is a huge advantage compared to 50 ping, it's not. If someone with 12 ping is a better player than you with 50, he will still be a better player if it was the other way around.

I use a Light Lance cause its the only one we have in the armoury and it allows me to fight infantry head on fairly well, most infantry suck at using their max reach. Heavy Lance requires a 1 or 2 pierce damage buff regardless and a price decrease. Price was only increased as an attempt to balance through upkeep, which of course failed, so now that they balanced by stats, the earlier balance attempt should be undone.

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 03:17:22 pm »
+1
I thought lance cavalry was rather underpowered because I'd only played it with Heavy Lance. I got hold of a +3 Lance and wanted to try lance cav again, and the change in effectiveness (for half the price..) was just stunning. Heavy (g)lance needs a small pierce buff, speed buff and/or damage decrease. It's garbage right now while the regular lance and the light lance are a good weapons while being a lot cheaper.
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Offline adieumnode

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2013, 03:26:54 pm »
0
A speed buff would be a nerf to the heavy lance since a slower speed = more damage from speed bonus which of course is great for cavalry (and the main reason why even just the nerf from 27p to 24p was a HUGE deal for it, because of the difference that makes when combined with the speed bonus) a slower speed also means it "hangs" in the air longer which actually makes it easier to hit with than faster lances.

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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2013, 04:33:33 pm »
+1
A speed buff would be a nerf to the heavy lance since a slower speed = more damage from speed bonus which of course is great for cavalry (and the main reason why even just the nerf from 27p to 24p was a HUGE deal for it, because of the difference that makes when combined with the speed bonus) a slower speed also means it "hangs" in the air longer which actually makes it easier to hit with than faster lances.

the former is a wide spread rumor which devs have confirmed not to be true,  I used to think it as well.  concerning the latter: you dont need a long hanging lance if you do your timing right,  but have a lot more aggressive capabilities with a faster weapon.    also the weapon doesnt do enough damage to use the heavy lances long hang outside of its sweetspot.
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2013, 04:57:14 pm »
0
I say no to un-nerfing heavy lance?  Why you say?  Because I traded my +3 heavy lance when they nerfed the shit out of it for a +3 lance.  I also had to give up a +1 pair of gloves. 

Still the best trade I've ever made.  Man is the heavy lance a piece of shit.  It's not as bad now that they added 1 more damage to it from the nerf, but it's still pretty terrible.  It's tolerable if you're on a fast horse and only trying to take out other cav, or squishy archers.

The price of the heavy lance makes no sense right now, that's pretty obvious.
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Re: Whoever nerfed lance/couch damage is a dumbfuck: The Thread
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 05:18:34 pm »
0
the former is a wide spread rumor which devs have confirmed not to be true,  I used to think it as well.  concerning the latter: you dont need a long hanging lance if you do your timing right,  but have a lot more aggressive capabilities with a faster weapon.    also the weapon doesnt do enough damage to use the heavy lances long hang outside of its sweetspot.

It's definitely true.