Author Topic: 1h stab  (Read 15020 times)

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Offline Tzar

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2013, 11:03:23 pm »
0
A better suggestion, would be to buff the speed on the swings on all the weapons, would make more sense then nerfing stabs, plus the gameplay needs more diversity in attack options.

Holding down block every fight gets boring  :lol:

And to sum up all the whining towards stabs, being it polearm/2h/1h is that people overuse the attack because of the fast animation, its overused atm compared to all other attacks.
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Offline Kato

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #106 on: October 18, 2013, 01:18:57 am »
0
1h stab was strong even before buff, now is just no skill ultimate attack even better than also broken 2h and polestab.

I really dont like that thrust is now longer than right swing, pretty much it destroyed magic of 1h, when you need to choose right attack for every situation, now its just stabspam.

1h stab needed just very little buff, 2h and pole not buff on stab at all. I like changes that Tydeus made on other attack directions, especially overhead as combat is now more deadly.


Offline Knitler

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #107 on: October 18, 2013, 01:36:40 am »
+1
all stabs are broken, they're retardedly fast, look at knitler, full tincan, not amazingly high WPF and yet he still hits faster than the vast majority of people because of these instant stabs

i'm getting rather sick of not being able to target-switch onto anyone who's using a stab (unless i use my own stab (lol)) ... the stab is the longest attack, why is it also the fastest ?! ?! :/

imo revert back to native stabs

You call 170wpf not much?

Anyway, i also think stabs are kinda OP... just nerf everything but one thing is for sure and you ppl have to agree - If that weapon was supposed to stab it shouldnt be that hard nerfed.

Examples:
All the pointy and short 1h weapons; Long Espada, Broad Short Sword, Short Arming Sword, etc.
2h; Goedendag (the only 2h weapon which shouldnt get affected by a thrust/stab nerf.... just remove the lolstab and high dmg on 2h.
polearms: On polearms its actually just the lolstab ... the damage is ok cause its supposed to be.

There is one kind of a weapon which is just not good to be implemented in game;
Examples:
Daggers - extremly high dmg and speed - decide for one and ppl are not gonna run around with high agy builds and shitting into normal players fun

Btw .... there is also a "lolstab" on 2h Hammers if you want to call it like that :)


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Offline Xant

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #108 on: October 18, 2013, 01:42:42 am »
+2
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.
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Offline Corsair831

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #109 on: October 18, 2013, 01:54:52 am »
0
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.

it's not that i want them nerfed so much as just reverted back to native stabs

i don't get why they should be the longest range attacks and also the fastest ... surely the longest range should be the slowest? :3
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Offline Rebelyell

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #110 on: October 18, 2013, 03:34:04 am »
0
You call 170wpf not much?

Anyway, i also think stabs are kinda OP... just nerf everything but one thing is for sure and you ppl have to agree - If that weapon was supposed to stab it shouldnt be that hard nerfed.

Examples:
All the pointy and short 1h weapons; Long Espada, Broad Short Sword, Short Arming Sword, etc.
2h; Goedendag (the only 2h weapon which shouldnt get affected by a thrust/stab nerf.... just remove the lolstab and high dmg on 2h.
polearms: On polearms its actually just the lolstab ... the damage is ok cause its supposed to be.

There is one kind of a weapon which is just not good to be implemented in game;
Examples:
Daggers - extremly high dmg and speed - decide for one and ppl are not gonna run around with high agy builds and shitting into normal players fun

Btw .... there is also a "lolstab" on 2h Hammers if you want to call it like that :)
2h weapons have lowes dmg on stab


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Offline Pentecost

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #111 on: October 18, 2013, 04:43:56 am »
+1
These are the most wanted heirlooms in the game as of 5 minutes ago.


Considering all of the complaints about thrusts (not just 1h thrust, but thrusts in general) breaking the game, being too easy to use, being everywhere these days etc, it sure seems strange that, with one exception, every single weapon on that list either has a comparatively weak thrust or no thrust at all.

Can we get some usage statistics, please? It would be nice to see how much overlap there is.

Offline rufio

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #112 on: October 18, 2013, 09:24:15 am »
-1
This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.

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Offline Teeth

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #113 on: October 18, 2013, 10:54:13 am »
+2
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That is a terrible argument.

This "nerf everything" thing is a disease. I can't believe people still want to make the game easier when it's almost 2014. None of the stabs are unblockable.
That is a terrible argument. Meaning that you have a chance to defend yourself against them means they are okay regardless of their other traits? One could block a 100 speed Flamberge as well, so that wouldn't be unbalanced. Stabs are way too strong now in comparison to other attacks, which should be balanced out. Just using a stabby polearm makes me roll on the floor with laughter due to the sheer OP-ness. Partisans, awlpikes and the like are utter bullshit. My pike seems to have +50 effective reach due to being able to stab at the arse end of the animation for full damage.

1h can now have a 31 pierce, 100 speed, 103 length weapon, with a shield. It instastabs, stabs very fast at longer reach and outreaches lancers and twohand sideswings. On top of that you get some nice sideswings as well and none of the damage/speed penalty that hoplite weapons have. Not saying that those kind off builds are OP compared to hoplites, as hoplites were already OP and have been buffed by the shitty stabs as well. Everything stab based is now disproportionally strong. 2h stabs used to be OP, but that is why their damage has been nerfed to the 25p reaches over time. Now they are still OP, but not as much as the 1h stabs and polearm stabs which still rock 30+ pierce. Or 36 pierce on an awlpike, lol.

Of course the stabs look borky as well, you can walk them into people while the weapon has stopped moving. I do this with my pike and it's hilarious.

Offline Nightmare798

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #114 on: October 18, 2013, 12:22:33 pm »
+1
i would really like to believe you people, but i cant.

more than half of you play nothing but 2h, pole, or cav.

been on EU_1 while ago.

ratios go as this:

shielders: 10%
cav: 15%
ranged of all kinds 30%

the rest is 2h/pole.

most of them cried their eyes out, besides having broken overhead, best sideslashes and stab comparable to 1h, not to mention crush throught weapons.
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Offline Camaris

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2013, 12:52:59 pm »
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Even if there were 45% 2h/pole there would be only 22,5% of each. Not so big numbers anymore?
Perhaps some of them even use shield too? Hoplites?
And 1 of 10 shielder? Really?

Offline Xant

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #116 on: October 18, 2013, 12:54:57 pm »
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That is a terrible argument. Meaning that you have a chance to defend yourself against them means they are okay regardless of their other traits?
No, you don't just have a "chance." They aren't particularly difficult to block. Which is why they're fine.
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Offline rufio

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #117 on: October 18, 2013, 12:55:57 pm »
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No, you don't just have a "chance." They aren't particularly difficult to block. Which is why they're fine.

played together with lezard tor gurni and cooties last night, all agreed 1handed stab was pretty rediculous atm.
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Offline Xant

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #118 on: October 18, 2013, 01:02:28 pm »
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... And?
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Offline rustyspoon

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Re: 1h stab
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2013, 01:53:39 pm »
+4
The stab issue is way more complicated than people think and will never be perfect. That is mostly due to the fact that the original Warband engine sucks. Instead of stabs only occuring at the point of a weapon, they occur at any point along its hitbox. Because of this and how sweetspots work, it is always best to "drag" your stab into someone instead of doing a real-life stab.

Back in the old days, the 1h stab glanced at both close range and long range. Due to the fast animation and short weapon length, the sweetspot on stabs was very small. The ONLY way to successfully stab was to turn really far into your opponent. That's what everyone did. Then turning speed was nerfed.

It made 1h stabs incredibly difficult to land unless you were really familiar with your weapon length and the animation timing. Turn speed was unnerfed slightly, and people who could already do it well could stab again. Still, it was just about impossible for people without a lot of practice.

What Tydeus did was change the timing of the sweet spot. As far as I remember, he moved the timing of it slightly later. So damage ramps up later, (meaning its glance window is a bit longer at the beginning) and falls off later (making it active longer). That change makes it a hell of a lot easier for a stab to land, as it gives you more time to drag the side of the sword into your opponent.

Some people say that ALL 1h swords need a stab damage nerf and that 1h sword stabs outclass 2h swords. That is not true. There's only a FEW swords that have more stab damage, but they all have significantly less swing damage. The biggest difference between 1h stab and 2h stab damage would have to be (in my opinion) fighting style. As 1handers are so short, you are almost always moving forward when you fight. 2-handers usually strafe more when fighting as it's easier to use your longer weapon to attack opponents in unblockable areas. As the 1-hander is almost always moving forward, they utilize speed bonus more often. Speed bonus adds a significant boost to damage. Especially when combined with a held attack, you can do a FUCK-TON of damage even with low PS. This combined with pierce damage (which bypasses most of your armor) makes stabs hurt a lot. That is also why awlpikes (and all long, stabbing polearms) are so effective. As a support role, you're usually running at someone with a held attack and doing a fuckton of damage.

If it was a perfect world, this problem could be mitigated by having damage types effected differently by different types of armor. So pierce would be more effective against certain "types" and less effective against others. It's a way better model than the current where it basically ignores armor.

One question I have, is how come 1h stabs weren't seen as a problem way back in the day when everyone could do them, but they are such a huge problem now? My 1h actually does less damage at MW then it did back then. My only guess is that the playerbase is overall more skilled now than they were back then, and every decent 1-hander knows that it's all about abusing held attacks and speed bonus.
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