1h stab

[EyeBeat]

I am starting to wonder why I even have a MW Huscarl shield.  I can't count how many times xbow bolts go through it and kill me.

You actually hear the bolt hit the shield and then hit you.

I think there is a bug with the huscarl shield that I do not know about or that others know about but do not say anything about it.

I think the 1h stab is fine.  Damage/speed should be increased on 3 directional one handers and two handers though.  Basically anything that does not have a thrust.

[Bronto]

That's happened to me with a heavy round shield before eyebeat. I was close to the xbower so I don't know if proximity has to do with it or not.

[Bulzur]

I think that right now, with all stabs about equally retarded in slightly different ways, they should all be fixed simultaneously. It is undeniably more fair than before the animation revamp, but the game plays a little bit more wonky than what we were used to.

Not to mention the big trend lately on EU_2 is max WM armor clad miaodao braindead spam demons.

So let me get things straight :
-All stabs are equally retarded.
-The big trend for 2handers is using a stabless Miadao.
-The big trend for 1handers is using a high pierce stab.

But stabs are definitely equally retarded, specially when looking at what the players are using. I mean, it's not like 2handers were using a stabless weapon, right ? RIGHT ?



When i went into eu-2, i saw, in a 20 populated server at night, two effective 13 shieldskill practice shield + rondel, abusing the stab (pierce), then just pressing "x" and surprising people with a very fast swing (pierce). Also, i was in a balliste, shot at a shielder, and... shield blocked it. Shot at a 2h hero in full plate : onehit kill.


I'm sure removing completely the rondel dagger will also limit the amount of complains from 1hstab. And, like Paul once said, adjusting the stundelay, when your stab is blocked, for 1handers.  Pikemen can't block upwards after having their thrust blocked. One handers can attack again after having their thrust stun, if the opponent tries an overhead.

Offtopic :

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As a user of a MW Miadao, i found this shit highly effective. And probably too effective. Wouldn't mind seeing the base damage lowered by 2 points, and speed by 1. Though i still prefer a good old stabbing 2handers, since decent cavalry can easily kill me, and running away 1handers can easily turn around and stab, way faster than me just releasing a swing : whereas if i had a stabby sword, my hold attack would reach them before.

I think the 1h stab is fine.  Damage/speed should be increased on 3 directional one handers and two handers though.  Basically anything that does not have a thrust.

Stop the buffing spiral please. And seriously, buffing damage/speed of a Miadao ? Are you insane ?

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Only those who knew how to stab and had a stabbing weapon used it. I know Zlisch used them. The thrusts were a bit too difficult, but it was balanced in the way that it wasn't 3 normal swings and 1 OHMAHGAWDINSTASTABLULZFLLDMGL2BN00B as we have today.

I mostly rage against 1h because 2h and polearm have got their share of the hate for a long time and have been nerfed, despite still being broken. This new 1h stab animation and the free hit nudge are a big bird-giving to everything the community has stood for.That's why.

I certainly didn't use an espada because it was OP, I picked that weapon because I loved the look and the look of the stab animation, the thrusts weren't "a bit" too difficult, they didn't match the animation in any logical way whatsoever, halfway through stabbing you'd already glance, I do believe the reach the stab should give should be something in between then and now, but claiming that that animation was "a bit too difficult" is fucking retarded, yes I could use it after intense training, because I learned to ignore the animation and act as if an animation that fits the standard results makes sense. The espada wasn't all that hard, it was a bit UP before it's damage and speed got buffed, it became a decent weapon afterwards (BUT ONLY IF YOU LEARNED TO IGNORE WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN AND GO WITH YOUR INSTINCTS  WHEN USING IT)...

The 1h nudge has been confirmed to be getting a nerf, but as it already is you can nudge back even while nudge stunned, and if your footwork is decent and you react to the nudge you can get yourself enough time to block, even against my espada and such weapons, I'm not saying it isn't broken, that is the one broken thing about 1h besides a bug I'm not gonna mention because apparently I'm the only one who has found it and I don't wanna see it used.


Also to whoever claimed every 1h are using stabby weapons now, do you even fucking play the game? While the amount of 1h stabbers have gone up slightly the vast majority still use regular swords. Also, Kafein got a hardon for Miaodaos, they're pretty much never used on battle, and the longsword is clearly the best 2h.

[Mae.]

i forget the exact math, but yes xbows go through shields a lot now. I think it has to do with how close and how many shield points you have. I dont really get the point of them anymore because it happens so often (i used +3 elite cav for a bit)

[San]

Also to whoever claimed every 1h are using stabby weapons now, do you even fucking play the game? While the amount of 1h stabbers have gone up slightly the vast majority still use regular swords.

So it's also like that in EU? Amusing.

[CrazyCracka420]

I am starting to wonder why I even have a MW Huscarl shield.  I can't count how many times xbow bolts go through it and kill me.

You actually hear the bolt hit the shield and then hit you.

I think there is a bug with the huscarl shield that I do not know about or that others know about but do not say anything about it.

I think the 1h stab is fine.  Damage/speed should be increased on 3 directional one handers and two handers though.  Basically anything that does not have a thrust.

It's (base) 20 body armor/resistance.  That's pretty low compared to some of the +3 heavy xbows/arbalests.  Now that xbows are 2 slots, there's really no reason for these crossbowers to use a heavy xbow or arbalest. 

My knightly heater shield (33 body armor/unloomed) has never had an xbow bolt penetrate it.  It is one of the higher "resistance" shields, so it has relatively low overall HP.  I've always valued resistance/body armor of a shield over the total HP.  The 4 shield skill shields are the best in game.  The round shields (like Huscarl) are only good for shield walls and protecting people to your sides or behind you (due to the large size and the forcefield added on with shield difficulty).

[Kafein]

So it's also like that in EU? Amusing.

I suppose it depends what one calls a stabby sword. Is the side sword stabby ? Besides, on siege I'd say the majority uses picks and hammers and sometimes axes.

So let me get things straight :
-All stabs are equally retarded.
-The big trend for 2handers is using a stabless Miadao.

The trend is essentially a half dozen Grey calling themselves Vitez and doing a clone army of high armor miaodao spammer with excellent results so far. Longsword/HBS didn't suddenly stop being OP, it's just that several guys running around roflcoptering their chinese swords attracts more attention.

-The big trend for 1handers is using a high pierce stab.

The 1h stabbing sword population basically eveolved from nothing to something, not from nothing to everyone, not even a third.

When i went into eu-2, i saw, in a 20 populated server at night, two effective 13 shieldskill practice shield + rondel, abusing the stab (pierce), then just pressing "x" and surprising people with a very fast swing (pierce). Also, i was in a balliste, shot at a shielder, and... shield blocked it. Shot at a 2h hero in full plate : onehit kill.

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I'm sure removing completely the rondel dagger will also limit the amount of complains from 1hstab.

Nobody uses a rondel dagger seriously. once you lose your shield you are fucked, and even before that it takes some serious focus to keep in range.

And, like Paul once said, adjusting the stundelay, when your stab is blocked, for 1handers.  Pikemen can't block upwards after having their thrust blocked. One handers can attack again after having their thrust stun, if the opponent tries an overhead.

There's a difference between not being able to block and not being able to attack again. With some footwork it doesn't seem particularly hard to be able to block after having your pike thrust blocked (it depends on the enemy's speed of course). Onehanders have a shorter thrust stun, but if your just attack straight away after blocking it you won't be hit again even if the onehander spams like there's no tomorrow. The current thrust stun of 1h is the exact same as that of 2h (or whatever is the shortest one, I don't remember) so it's not like 1h have some godlike advantage at stab spamming.

Stop the buffing spiral please. And seriously, buffing damage/speed of a Miadao ? Are you insane ?

What buffing spiral ? People take forever to die and this has to change.

[Akynos]

I certainly didn't use an espada because it was OP, I picked that weapon because I loved the look and the look of the stab animation, the thrusts weren't "a bit" too difficult, they didn't match the animation in any logical way whatsoever, halfway through stabbing you'd already glance, I do believe the reach the stab should give should be something in between then and now, but claiming that that animation was "a bit too difficult" is fucking retarded, yes I could use it after intense training, because I learned to ignore the animation and act as if an animation that fits the standard results makes sense. The espada wasn't all that hard, it was a bit UP before it's damage and speed got buffed, it became a decent weapon afterwards (BUT ONLY IF YOU LEARNED TO IGNORE WHAT YOU SEE ON YOUR SCREEN AND GO WITH YOUR INSTINCTS  WHEN USING IT)...

Never said you used the espada because it was OP Zlisch, where did you get that from? I said that before the patch it was OK in my opinion, all 4 attack directions were good, although 1h was a bit too glancy. The way you fought with it wasn't OP at all : swings were weak but easier to land and 1h was harder to get right but dealt more damage. It was balanced. Now its just a one handed 100 speed awlpike with 3 other swings for the lolz.
BTW honestly I don't really mind you abusing the shit out of it, I mean you are one of the few who used it before the patch so you aren't one of those skilless idiots who go 1h thrusty spammy because they suck with normal weapons

[Xant]

Way to exaggerate. Espada is nothing like an awlpike, let alone a "100 speed one with 3 other swings."

[Tzar]

How come this aint in the chamber of tears  : 

[Akynos]

Way to exaggerate. Espada is nothing like an awlpike, let alone a "100 speed one with 3 other swings."

Let's use science !

Espada Eslavona:

Reach: Thrust = 90+61 = 151
Damage: Thrust = 31p
                Swing = 25c
Speed: 102
Weight: 1.2

Awlpike:
Reach: Thrust = 165+19 = 184
Damage: Thrust = 33p
               Swing = 20b
Speed= 91
Weight = 2.5

[Xant]

Such science.

[Akynos]

Bullshit becomes science as soon as we put numbers and equal signs with it !

[rustyspoon]

I find it terribly amusing that people are complaining about the regular Espada of all things. So a short weapon that frequently glances on 3 out of 4 of its attacks is OP? I'd hate to see your idea of balanced.

Honestly, you should be glad to go up against someone using a weapon like that. That same asshole could instead be using a Spathovaklion or one of 1h's many other blunt weapons. You know, weapons that are as fast, longer, do more damage and have knockdown?

But naw...that Espada...totally overpowered.