Steel Pick [POLL]

[Phew]

Unless you are at a severe athletics/weight disadvantage, you can fight a steel pick user and never even have to block, just dance outside their range and kick/nudge if they get too close. Picks should be very powerful, because it's so easy to avoid them anywhere other than a choke point. And even in a choke point, a maul is a better weapon all around anyway.

[Grumbs]

You're a cunt.

Cool, lose your argument and go to ad hominems

[Penitent]

I'm talking about duels not using a shield. Why should 1H automatically be forced to use a shield?

This is duels we're talking about. If you use a shield in duels you're a cunt.

Additionally, the only people who believe that shields are actually effective against ranged are ranged.

woah woah woah woah

Yes, if you are using a 1h without a shield, you are only using one of your arms and you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, obviously.  You are fighting with one hand tied behind your back.  You might as well use a 2h sword in pole arm mode...its a disadvantage not to use all the advantages available to you (like a free hand).  That's kind of what a disadvantage is.

(click to show/hide)

Some people are good at "swashbuckling" by using 1h with no shield.  It makes you a bit faster without a shield weighing you down.  If you just want to be good at melee like this though, you're better off using a 2h.

I always use shields in a duel if I want to actually win...since I have a good amount of skill points in shield and to NOT use a shield is handicapping myself for no reason.  The only reason I don't is if I'm trying to improve my manual blocking skills.

I have 11 gens of shielder...shields are immensely, positively, absolutely, amazingly effective against ranged.  I have no fear of ranged.  They are my prey.  I smile when their arrows clunk uselessly against my bulwark of protection.  I get hard watching them flee from me.  Even MORE -- I can protect myself and teammates against ranged.  This is my calling in life when I am holding a shield.

[Phew]

Yes, if you are using a 1h without a shield, you are only using one of your arms and you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, obviously.  You are fighting with one hand tied behind your back.  You might as well use a 2h sword in pole arm mode...its a disadvantage not to use all the advantages available to you (like a free hand).  That's kind of what a disadvantage is.

1h no shield attack nudge enables a free hit every 6 seconds, that's a pretty compelling use for that free hand. But apparently this is being "fixed" next patch, whenever that arrives (Dec. 2010?).

[San]

Don't get ahead of yourselves guys, steel pick is pretty dang good in 1v1s with and without shield.

[Ronin]

Picks=Hard to spot, pierce damage (less chance to glance), faster compared to blunt weapons.

[Phew]

Don't get ahead of yourselves guys, steel pick is pretty dang good in 1v1s with and without shield.

In your hands, but a practice dagger would be "pretty dang good" in your hands. Duel Saul/Giggleknight/someone else with similar skill level to yours, if he has a side sword/spathovaklion/etc and you have a steel pick, you are going to be at a severe disadvantage.

I don't have a horse in this race (I think picks look stupid and won't use one regardless), but I like diversity on the battlefield. And picks are going nearly extinct in favor of thrust 1h swords/blunt 1h.

[Phantasmal]

Steel pick is already pretty good as it is. It is made more for the agility based build rather then a str based build (who should really be using the longer 1hers to begin with).

[Penitent]

Steel pick is already pretty good as it is. It is made more for the agility based build rather then a str based build (who should really be using the longer 1hers to begin with).

That's kind of an odd perspective...

It's perfectly acceptable and viable for a STR build to use a fast weapon to try to minimize the slowness his low wpf (espcially if he's a shielder as a shield helps you get in range is you have a short weapon), or for an agi build to use a long weapon to try to maximize their mobility and ability to dance and and out of range.

All builds have a proper place using all weapons, for the most part -- there are just different pros and cons.  That was always my understanding.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Cool, lose your argument and go to ad hominems

That wasn't ad hominem. He didn't tell you that your opinions were based on the fact that you were a fat, cheeto-dusted neckbeard in real life. That would be ad hominem.

All he did was call you a cunt. I think the technical term for that is...

....
....

yeah, I'm pretty sure its just calling you a cunt.


ON TOPIC:

I do not consider lack of length to be a net negative for many weapons. Against a single target who will exploit that lack of length by taping his S key down, the only real recourse is to either stand completely still or S key him back, making him feel so awkward he may be compelled to advance towards you. However, in a team-fight situation, I prefer short weapons much of the time. You're much less likely to glance on teammates who are likely not keeping you and your position in mind while fighting, much less likely to glance off of enemies that you're not intending to hit, and your weapon is much more difficult to see for an enemy in the hectic environment of a team-fight.

[Grumbs]

yeah, I'm pretty sure its just calling you a cunt.

Guess so. I didn't mean to say I "won the debate" in general in this thread though, that would be crass. Just his tangent into balancing everything around duelling and balancing 1 handers without considering that most use them with a shield

But yeah getting into name calling pretty much ruins whatever point you were trying to make imo and usually means you moved away from arguing your point and into ad hominem territory

[Strudog]

Sometimes i role with steel pick in strat because it does more damage with 1 wpf than my pole with 150 wpf

[oohillac]

what if

stay with me here

what if instead we nerfed

still with me?

what if we nerfed 1h stab?  that'd balance the pick

[Penitent]

what if

stay with me here

what if instead we nerfed

still with me?

what if we nerfed 1h stab?  that'd balance the pick

I was thinking the picks are more UP compared to maces and hammers.  Steel Pick and Warhammer are a mis-match anyways, with the warhammer clearly better.

Looks like the general consensus so far is that the pick is not in need of a buff tho.

[Nightmare798]

what if

stay with me here

what if instead we nerfed

still with me?

what if we nerfed 1h stab?  that'd balance the pick

hmm, i can smell the STR steel pick whore from a mile away.