Spathovaklion

[San]

I really like the stats on this weapon, but I feel it overshadows too many other blunt 1hs.

weapon length: 75
weight: 2
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 75
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 27 blunt
slots: 1
Knockdown

If you nerf its speed, it will just be a slightly better winged mace. Nerf its damage and it'll just be a slightly better flanged mace.

Here's my proposal: nerf knockdown by reducing its weight to ~0.7 or another miniscule value at +0. In an extreme case, maybe even remove knockdown.

Why?
Current knockdown chance at +3 (2.5 weight) is ~12%, as good/better than most other blunt 1hs and half as good as the heaviest blunt 2h/polearm. The high weight+speed also allows you to stun+spam lighter weapons. At 0.7, it's 3.5% and at 1.2 it's 6%. Lower weight also helps it get block stunned more often, a peculiarity among blunt weapons. If the +0.5 weight at +3 could be removed, a simple weight of 1 would be perfect.

It looks pretty thin, and with less knockdown it acquires a perfect niche: Fast blunt damage with decent reach. I would like to compare it to the military sickle, which gets +1 speed and -1 damage and a secondary mode. I think nerfing stats would do it injustice. Some might not like this, but I don't think people chose this weapon to crutch on knockdown (they would choose warhammer).

Credit to Phew, since I believe he had this idea a long while ago.

[Ronin]

I'd say 1.0-1.3 weight is enough. Otherwise, the weapon itself would get stunned way too many often. One should consider that, other 1handed swords have 1.5-1.8 weight.

[Erzengel]

First time I have to disagree with you san.

You know that 1.3 weight almost never gives you a knockdown? A Winged Mace with 1.7 weight (unloomed) already stuns very rarely.  Your proposal would make the weapon completly useless. Not even talking about removing knockdown from one handed blunt weapons. I am sorry, but that's just ridiculous.

There is almost no weapon that gets stunned by the Spathovaklion. Only one handed weapons which are used without a shield and which have less than 1.3 weight are affected by this. I guess this is quite neglectable since the weight of most mid/high tier one handed weapons was increased to 1.4+.

There is a good reason why Spathovaklion is slightly better (well, it always depends on your build) than most other one handed blunt weapons: it is much more expensive (nearly twice as much upkeep as the Winged Mace for example, which has -5  lenght, -0.3 weight, -1 speed and the same damage). It would also be unrealistic to reduce the weight compared to other maces since Spathovaklion is almost completly made out of metal.

Internal one handed blunt balance is fine. No reason to fuck around with it. 

12% stun chance isn't that high if you take into account that you still need 5+ hits to kill an enemy with high strength and armour. Your enemy can also use the barrel roll to avoid getting hit again.

I usually always enjoy your ideas, but you are completly wrong this time.

[Gurnisson]

Internal one handed blunt balance is fine. No reason to fuck around with it. 

The internal mace balance was good before Spathovaklion was added. Not anymore.

[Erzengel]

The internal mace balance was good before Spathovaklion was added. Not anymore.

Yes, it is probably the best mace, but it isn't that much better than the rest if you take the upkeep into account. No need to nerf it to the ground.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Yes, it is probably the best mace, but it isn't that much better than the rest if you take the upkeep into account. No need to nerf it into the ground.

Coming from a guy who loses more than I win on a 5x, upkeep is useless in prohibiting anything and barely a pain in the ass, and there still exists no upkeep exploits.

[Erzengel]

Coming from a guy who loses more than I win on a 5x, upkeep is useless in prohibiting anything and barely a pain in the ass, and there still exists no upkeep exploits.

Well, why not make Practice dagger on par with Paramerion then? Or One Handed War Axe with Broad One Handed Battle Axe (to have a more realistic example  )? The most expensive items should always be slightly better than the cheaper ones.

Not 100% sure if I really understand what you are saying, but I am usually not using very expensive gear. My current equipment set has a maximum upkeep of 2,6k (which is quite much for me).

[MURDERTRON]

1h stab is so OP that this is the first time anyone has complained about the Spathovaklion in two months.

[San]

It's not really complaining, just an obvious adjustment. It's like if the devs released an elite elite scimitar with +1 cut more than the elite scimitar. It's still probably fine, but then it just completely negates the elite scimitar. Something like that. I was trying to imply earlier that nerfing speed or blunt actually makes it too weak, since it'll be too similar to weapons that are 5k cheaper.

[protox2k]

HI SAN and everyone else good afternoon .

Well lets get started on this OP weapon......
I highly suggest that this weapon is taken off altogether from the shop!
Like someone posted up above^^^^^^^^ I agree that the mace balance was way better before the Spathovaklion was added.
The least they need to do is at least raise up the price because 578 repair isn't high enough for such an OP weapon.

(click to show/hide)

HAI SAN I'M A CREEPER

[Erzengel]

It's not really complaining, just an obvious adjustment. It's like if the devs released an elite elite scimitar with +1 cut more than the elite scimitar. It's still probably fine, but then it just completely negates the elite scimitar. Something like that. I was trying to imply earlier that nerfing speed or blunt actually makes it too weak, since it'll be too similar to weapons that are 5k cheaper.

Reducing the speed by 1 for example isn't a big deal. I am ok with such a change, but reducing the weight by 0.7 would just make it plain useless.

[Falka]

There is a good reason why Spathovaklion is slightly better (well, it always depends on your build) than most other one handed blunt weapons: it is much more expensive (nearly twice as much upkeep as the Winged Mace for example, which has -5  lenght, -0.3 weight, -1 speed and the same damage).

Bullshit argument. For someone with 20+ mw items upkeep doesn't matter at all. And it's not "slightly" better, it's much better. Not to mention it looks like kids toy, not like weapon.

[Necrorave]

In all honesty.  I agree with both sides of this argument.

Although, how about we do some kind of compensation of the two?

Lower the weight a bit but add some damage to the weapon.  The speed is silly as it is but if you lower the weight it might make more sense.

I am thinking of maybe 1.5 weight and perhaps +1 to the current damage would even the weapon out to be a more "Damaging mace" but not the most effective at knocking down.

I feel it would still make it worth the value for the speed and damage, but it does lack a bit in knockdown still.

Just an idea.

[Erzengel]

Bullshit argument. For someone with 20+ mw items upkeep doesn't matter at all. And it's not "slightly" better, it's much better. Not to mention it looks like kids toy, not like weapon.

So we balance items only for the few players with 20+ +3 items? It is only slightly better compared to the two other blunt weapons in the same price category (Military Hammer and Warhammer). Military Hammer has +5 length, +0.3 weight, -5 speed, +1 damage, (secondary mode) and costs 1,8k less. Warhammer has -10 lenght, +0.5 weight, -2 speed, +4 damage, (secondary mode) and a stab at a 1,6k higher price. Now tell me how Spathovaklion is far superior compared to them.  And don't compare it to items which cost only the half of it or even less, that's a "bullshit argument"... Why don't I see you complaining about a Light One Handed Battle Axe having worse stats than a Broad One Handed Battle Axe for example?

[rustyspoon]

My only problem with the Spathovaklion is it's so much harder to see than the other blunt 1h's. Fix that and I'd be a happy puppy.