Author Topic: Your Opinion on Arbalests  (Read 5573 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Lt_Anders

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1049
  • Infamy: 651
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Man, I still play this shit?
    • View Profile
    • Drowtales
  • Faction: Astralis
  • Game nicks: Anders_Astralis
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #60 on: October 02, 2013, 01:05:28 am »
0
Really, you move my thread on the opinion of throwing lances but not this one?
EVIL MODERATORS! :evil:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline FRANK_THE_TANK

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1312
  • Infamy: 339
  • cRPG Player Sir White Knight
  • FluckCucker
    • View Profile
  • Faction: A Free and proud Peasant of Fisdnar!!!
  • Game nicks: FRANK_THE_TANK
  • IRC nick: Sippy sip
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #61 on: October 02, 2013, 01:39:03 am »
0
For the reload speed they are fine

And they require skill with 200+ ping :D
Fammi un pompino!

I think I have ball cancer in my right nut :(
Good news everybody! It's not nut cancer :)
Bad news everybody, I got dumped :(

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2013, 09:27:59 am »
0
Isn't it 8% damage from one PS or PD? So 8x7 would be 56% more damage.

whyiseverybodyelseterribleatmath

Applying +8% seven times is the equivalent of 1,08^7 ~ 171% unless the game is intentionally misleading that is.

Offline Xant

  • Finnish Pony
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1552
  • Infamy: 803
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2013, 10:01:02 am »
0
grumbs = errbody else
Meaning lies as much
in the mind of the reader
as in the Haiku.

Offline Paul

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1879
  • Infamy: 442
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • ball bounce boss
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: Urist
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2013, 10:08:25 am »
+1
I don't see how +7 pierce equates to +3 pierce (even with +56% damage). Maybe i'm being dense but I don't see it.

If its an attempt to balance the lack of bonus from your build then why apply it in the loomed version and not the normal unloomed version? Spent more loom points? So what, why should they combine for more damage just because you spent money on it?

Why do you even expect a bonus damage when you don't even have to spend points towards using the thing? Bows spend 4-6 points on PD and WPF is much more important. Melee spends points into shields, PS, IF etc just for their melee build. Xbows shouldn't get any bonus at all at any rate without spending points into something

You are right. We will increase the damage of archery looms again.

Offline Strudog

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 922
  • Infamy: 361
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • A Dog
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Britfag
  • Game nicks: Strudog
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2013, 10:25:24 am »
-1
whyiseverybodyelseterribleatmaths

Applying +8% seven times is the equivalent of 1,08^7 ~ 171% unless the game is intentionally misleading that is.

Maths not fucking Math, stop being lazy
This is the internet.
Men are men
Women are men
Little girls are FBI agents.
Those are the rules no?

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #66 on: October 02, 2013, 10:55:33 am »
0
Maths not fucking Math, stop being lazy

It's mathematics, not mathsematics. Nor mathsemantics or anything else.

grumbs = errbody else

Errbody else : emotionally sufficient part of the events I notice to call them a rule. Respect my cognitive biases !

Offline Grumbs

  • طالبان
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1170
  • Infamy: 617
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #67 on: October 02, 2013, 12:29:04 pm »
-1
You are right. We will increase the damage of archery looms again.

I know you're trying to be funny but i meant the bonus from PD. Xbows shouldnt expect bonus damage just because archers do, archers get the damage from sacrificing points from other parts of their build. The loom changes for archery were a good change except for the fact that a bunch of other stats were buffed at the same time for some bows. Plus it resulted in a huge boom in archers on the servers as a random STF was suddenly doing as much damage as someone who spent 6 loom points into his class.

Balancing around looms should be a last ditch effort to control the amount and strength of ranged though. Its a super lazy way to do it with other real options available and it gives too much power to guys with money, and takes power away from guys that are new to the game and will be at a disadvantage anyway. A real way to limit ranged would be to increase their disadvantages while still rewarding skilled use of the class. Make them rely on teamwork more, make each shot count more, make strong counters to the classes or make people sacrifice other things in their build to use ranged effectively. Archers already have a bunch of these elements that xbows should have.

I do think people should be rewarded a bit for getting looms though. It adds a dimension to the game that some people need to keep an incentive to play. I would still give a couple extra points of damage to archers for looms, but reduce base damage on unloomed gear to compensate. +1 damage on arrows and +1 damage on the bow would be fine. Same for xbows and same for weapons but you only have 3 stats  so i'd do for eg a swinging weapon +1 swing, +1 stab, then +1 speed. TBH this could be done in a few ways.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:44:10 pm by Grumbs »
If you have ranged troubles use this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Offline oreshy

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 169
  • Infamy: 30
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Braxli
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #68 on: October 02, 2013, 03:19:33 pm »
0
For the reload speed they are fine


& for 15 str. ..2 slot's too.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline 722_

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 991
  • Infamy: 19
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Bishop A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #69 on: October 02, 2013, 07:53:41 pm »
0


& for 15 str. ..2 slot's too.

Plus 1.3k upkeep
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Vodner

  • Duke
  • *******
  • Renown: 526
  • Infamy: 73
  • cRPG Player
  • SaulCanner
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: SaulCanner
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2013, 09:49:19 pm »
0
Applying +8% seven times is the equivalent of 1,08^7 ~ 171% unless the game is intentionally misleading that is.
Powerstrike does not multiplicatively self-stack (but the bonus damage from powerstrike does stack multiplicatively with other sources of bonus damage, except for the strength bonus).

e: Same goes for power draw.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:08:13 pm by Vodner »

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2013, 10:10:03 pm »
0
Powerstrike does not multiplicatively self-stack (but the bonus damage from powerstrike does stack multiplicatively with other sources of bonus damage, except for the strength bonus).

That's the kind of things I would expect to be spelled out by TW :s

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2013, 10:52:42 pm »
0
raw_damage *= power_strike * 0.08 + 1.0

Can't get simpler than that. PD is 14% but has a lot of limitations. PT is 10%. For melee weapons, +3 damage is quite a bit more than 1 PS (except at high cut damage). +7 damage is quite large.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:56:35 pm by san. »

Offline CrazyCracka420

  • Minute Valuable Contributor
  • Strategus Councillor
  • **
  • Renown: 1950
  • Infamy: 794
  • cRPG Player Sir White Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Welp
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Vaegirs
  • Game nicks: Huseby
  • IRC nick: Steam name: crazycracka420
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #73 on: October 02, 2013, 10:56:52 pm »
+1
fuck maths and mechanics mega bullshit.  spell it out for the layman taleworlds!!

WILL THIS MAKE MY HORSE GO VROOM OR NOT  :evil:

WILL THIS MAKE MY BOW GO PEW OR NOT  :evil:

WILL THIS MAKE MY CLUB GO BANG OR NOT  :evil:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 - Stolen from Macropussy

Offline ROHYPNOL

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 361
  • Infamy: 127
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Poor Washing Machine
    • View Profile
Re: Your Opinion on Arbalests
« Reply #74 on: October 29, 2013, 07:43:06 pm »
0
As an arbalest user for roughly 16 gens, I would not mind seeing some sort of damage reduction to them (as long as they internally balanced the crossbows along with it). Their only drawback as of now is the extremely long reload speed (which can be mitigated efficiently with enough wpf). The arb becomes god-like on city maps when you can avoid any form of cavalry by standing on a building. But I will say this, it is extremely easy to shutdown any crossbow user unlike other ranged.

Rain: I don't mind the damage reduction, my biggest complaint is the significant effect on missile speed which completely throws off anyone's aim. I usually take a pure melee loadout whenever it rains on the server.

Dedicated harassment: Any kind of cavalry unit, especially ranged cavalry, can easily shutdown a crossbow. Nothing is more frustrating in this game then trying to fight a HA or HX with a 70 length short sword on an open plains map. Non-ranged cav can just keep you occupied until infantry arrives. Melee can harass you if they get close too and prevent a reload while archers can just run away, turn, shoot, rinse and repeat.

Edit: In terms of an average raw DPS, a dedicated archer would probably be more efficient as well.

You are saying what "can" happen when most of the time you know what actually does happen. Standing behind a tree, on a hill, or just any spot that no one can find you, continually hiding and reloading

picking people off one by one, "usually the better players". Shooting 100 pierce weapons all the way across the map that does more damage than throwing lances, with way better aim at that. Did I mention

that anyone can pick them up. Shits op as fuck bro. Lets cut the b/s here.
Quote from: Jeade
you're rough around the edges.
This is the reason people don't like you if anyone ever did.