Get a shield they said

[Teeth]

Careful, speed bonus isn't linear. A 3 m/s increase in speed would actually lead to a 9.7% speed bonus.

You would only need a 4.58 m/s increase to get a 15% speed bonus.

What's the formula then? Didn't know there was one available.

[Vodner]

What's the formula then? Didn't know there was one available.

(Combined impact speed / initial projectile speed) ^ 1.9 for ranged attacks.

Technically the exponent depends on the 'missile_damage_speed_power' setting in module.ini.

e:
I was assuming a 60 m/s projectile speed in my post. The speed change needed for a 15% bonus will depend on the actual projectile speed, of course.

Drag on long range shots also affects speed bonus in a similar manner. For example, a 10% loss in projectile speed due to drag will lead to an 18% damage penalty versus a motionless target.

[Nightingale]

It happens all the time and I have 4 shield skill and 21 armour shield. Don't remember it happening as much with my 1 skill 7 armour one before, or its just that I play with the shield more now so notice it more

Grumpy when cav is dehorsed he still has put like 6 points into riding which detracts from his infantry ability. Xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth.

My build at level 30- (15-27)3 ps , 5 ath, 9 wm/ 170 wpf in xbow, 85 in 1h.

So your general statement saying xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth.I'll give you that, I'm just as effective with 85 wpf in 1h as I am with 180 wpf in 1h. Only difference I notice is slightly faster swings. but It's not our fault wpf is valued at nothing. I still spend well over 70% of my points on Range in my build. So its not quite fair for us either that some random infantry guy can just pick up our crossbow with 0 investment be almost as accurate, reloading only slightly slower and dealing the same damage. Saying in general; xbows don't invest anything is propaganda at best. Not everyone invest points the same, it differs from person to person, in my case 6 point investment in riding is less than 9 point investment in wm.

I've been a xbow for awhile now and I can say I do shoot through peoples shields quite often but a few things to keep in mind. That guy is always moving towards me or has very very low shield skill. The shield still absorbs most of the damage *only time it actually hurts significantly is a headshot through the shield*, but I can still see why that would be annoying.

The problem with crossbows is the fact that anyone can pick one up off the ground and be as nearly as effective as someone who is a dedicated build, especially so at close range.

(click to show/hide)

I might be wrong, but I think Angle also affects the chance of shield penetration.

[Grumbs]

My build at level 30- (15-27)3 ps , 5 ath, 9 wm/ 170 wpf in xbow, 85 in 1h.

So your general statement saying xbows have to dedicate nothing of worth.I'll give you that, I'm just as effective with 85 wpf in 1h as I am with 180 wpf in 1h. Only difference I notice is slightly faster swings. but It's not our fault wpf is valued at nothing. I still spend well over 70% of my points on Range in my build. So its not quite fair for us either that some random infantry guy can just pick up our crossbow with 0 investment be almost as accurate, reloading only slightly slower and dealing the same damage. Saying in general; xbows don't invest anything is propaganda at best. Not everyone invest points the same, it differs from person to person, in my case 6 point investment in riding is less than 9 point investment in wm.

I've been a xbow for awhile now and I can say I do shoot through peoples shields quite often but a few things to keep in mind. That guy is always moving towards me or has very very low shield skill. The shield still absorbs most of the damage *only time it actually hurts significantly is a headshot through the shield*, but I can still see why that would be annoying.

The problem with crossbows is the fact that anyone can pick one up off the ground and be as nearly as effective as someone who is a dedicated build, especially so at close range.

(click to show/hide)

I might be wrong, but I think Angle also affects the chance of shield penetration.

That type of build I can understand to some extent. Its the builds you see that very marginally stray from a normal infantry build I mean as you mention. I can pick up a MW arbalist on the field and shoot guys, done it many times with 1 WPF. I could tweak my build minus shield skill (and put it into better stats), put WPF (which I max into polearms) into xbows and 1 handers and have a better melee build with ranged. I was playing with 1 wpf 1 handers even the other day and it is very possible I'm sure to go pure xbow and still do nearly as well in melee. I could even use a Hunting Xbow (56 pierce) and use a polearm still. The weight difference between a good shield and taking a xbow is minimal for what you get, and you just drop it in a fight). A pure xbower that has bad PS sacrifices melee for ranged, but I don't think you really need to if you want to hybrid ranged and melee

One of my main gripes with the shield crushthrough is that I sacrifice 4 shield skill when I could just take a ranged weapon myself and actually have a better melee build and snipe with everyone else. It leads to the mentality players have now were they don't want to get involved and just sit at the sidelines shooting until forced into a melee fight

[Jarlek]

You get shieldskill and a shield to not get shot.

There's a mechanic that makes you still take damage even if you have a shield and are facing the guy shooting you.

There's something seriously wrong with this...

(click to show/hide)

My suggestion: remove it, but make it so that when your shield is destroyed by a projectile the remaining damage is sent to you (armour would usually stop the reduced damage, though)

[Nightmare798]

You get shieldskill and a shield to not get shot.

There's a mechanic that makes you still take damage even if you have a shield and are facing the guy shooting you.

There's something seriously wrong with this...

(click to show/hide)

My suggestion: remove it, but make it so that when your shield is destroyed by a projectile the remaining damage is sent to you (armour would usually stop the reduced damage, though)

well yeah that would be cool, but the problem is, that even when the shield gets broken, it still deflects the projectile away.

[Jarlek]

well yeah that would be cool, but the problem is, that even when the shield gets broken, it still deflects the projectile away.

That's what the "make it so..." was for.

[Nightmare798]

That's what the "make it so..." was for.

i mean that even when the bolt hits the part of the shield that gets broken and falls of, it still deflects the bolt off its trajectory.
so it should hurt you at all.

and tbh i dont think that projectile with enough energy to pierce a shield would have enough speed remaining to wound a man, especially not through armor.

[EyeBeat]

Everyone knows this is wrong.

But even if the devs would want to change it I do not think they would be able to.

[Huscarlton_Banks]

Would be pretty easy to change crossbows to just not penetrate at all, just need to change the module.ini, no scripting needed.

Damaging on break would be the hard bit.

[Kafein]

All archers :

"Op should remove the sand from his vagina and get a shield lol"

[CrazyCracka420]

Why do xbows shoot straight through my 4 skill shield like it is paper and do damage to me?

Why are xbowers regular infantrymen when they put away their xbow?

I've always used a non-loomed knightly heater shield, knightly kite shield, or elite cavalry shield, and always had 4 shield (no reason to get more shield skill than the shield needs).  I don't think I've ever had one quarrel go through these shields.  But then again, they all have a high resistance value (that's why I like em). 

[Phew]

If you have 6 shieldskill it would need the crossbow to deal 30+3*24*1.08^6 = 114.25 damage

Where did you come up with that formula? Everything I've read has it purely a function of shield armor, with shield skill having no effect:

For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.

I wish shield skill actually did something besides allow my shield to survive one more axe hit, but alas, shield skill above the requirement is pretty much worthless.

I will only use the Knightly Kite/Heater shields, because I can't stand bolts penetrating, and I want to stick with 100+ speed shields (even though these fast shields are still noticeably slower than manual blocking). It sucks that if those are your requirements, you get exactly two shields to choose from (bucklers excepted).

[Nyu]

If you have 6 shieldskill it would need the crossbow to deal 30+3*24*1.08^6 = 114.25 damage

Where did you come up with that formula? Everything I've read has it purely a function of shield armor, with shield skill having no effect:

It didn't say if shieldskill is even being taken in account for this formula, so it could just be the 30+3*shieldarmor mentioned in the game mechanic thread.

I just assumed that shieldskill is being added, since shieldskill is affecting how long your shield survives and for me it felt like, if I had lower shield skill, my shield was penetrated more often.
Before I was just unsure if shield skill is adding armor to the shield, or reducing the incoming damage.

So if shield skill has to be taken into account it's
either                   30+3*shieldarmor*1.08^shieldskill = xbow damage needed to penetrate
or                         30+3*shieldarmor = xbow damage needed to penetrate * 1.08^shieldskill

which changes the example result from a +3 Huscarl shield with 6 shieldskill
from                     30+3*24*1.08^6 = 114.25 damage needed
to                         30+3*24 = 102 damage needed * 1.08^6 = 161.86 damage needed

Or shieldskill is not being used and what I assumed is wrong
=                          30+3*24 = 102 damage needed

Thanks to you I'm not sure if shieldskill is even being useful against penetration

[Phew]

Thanks to you I'm not sure if shieldskill is even being useful against penetration

With 6 or 7 shield skill, I've had the following experiences against +3 arbalests with +3 steel bolts (100 pierce dmg):
19 shield armor (+3 Heavy Round Shield)-Frequently penetrated
21 shield armor (+3 Hand Pavise Shield)-Occasionally penetrated
25 shield armor (+3 Elite Cavalry Shield)-Rarely penetrated (once or twice with max speed bonus at pointe blank range)
35-37 shield armor (+3 Knightly kite/heater)-never penetrated (except by ballista)

So assume speed bonus could get the damage up to 125 pierce, that would make the minimum required shield armor to avoid penetration ~32, which jives with my observations, and the original equation in the game mechanic thread (which doesn't include the shield skill).

I wish shield skill affected penetration, because that would open up a bunch of shields for consideration. But right now if you want a shield larger than a buckler with 100+ speed that won't get penetrated by bolts, you have two choices. Pretty boring. It's a shame that some skills (shield, riding, weapon master) are such poor investments above the item requirements. I really wish they would buff these skills, because right now you have lvl 34 guys running around with specs like 30/18 and all their points in power strike/athletics (because other skills are so weak in comparison), and they are unstoppable juggernaughts.