Horsemy old friendchery

[Adamar]

What matters isn't what you think people with bows should do. What matters is what they actually do, which isn't countering HA and HX, for plenty of good reasons. First because there are much easier targets around.

Wrong, HA, melee cav and ranged are top targets, because they dont allow archers to deploy freely in the battlefield, removing them gives us a tactical ability.

The first reason why many of us archers might not be shooting back at enemy ranged and horses, is because the enemy inf is closing in our position and we have no support, since the melee single minded entity saw fit to full charge together like the heroes of old, and leave us ranged for pickings.

The second reason is bump shooting. We dont have big weapons to actually keep them at bay, but even switching between bow and side arm is dangerous, because the rider maneuvers the horse away, then back, before you have time to release the arrow. Or he could just shoot you first with his spammy bow that actually works against light armor, that's a problem too. And if we have something to hide behind, then the rider just goes away and waits for a teammate to force us out. And dodging is not really reliable since the weight nerf, no, staying away from a strong horse in general is the rule if you're an unsupported archer.

Another reason is range itself, shooting at an enemy with the ability to change its position rapidly, from long range, is a waste of arrows, and we run out of those. Keep that in mind people and please dont run after the enemy ha if you have ranged support, or ever. Make them come to you and you might have a shot at dehorsing.

As I told you before Kafein, you have to know the class before you comment on it. Keep your opinions to yourself.




Remember that the constant nerfing has its toal, and if some people expect ranged efficiency from their team, then hand holding is more and more a requirement, whether you like it or not.

Even though I hate horse ranged for the reasons stated above, I have to say nerfing would just feed the fire, because people who dont want to teamplay(because it's 'unfun'), never will, and they should learn the consequences instead of successfully flaming the rest.

Now devs;
Believe it or not, you have in your hands the means to determine what kind of attitude the comunity adheres to. And so far, threads like these have been the result, despite the constant underdogging of non melee classes.



Oh, and  NERF!

[XyNox]

Wrong, HA, melee cav and ranged are top targets, because they dont allow archers to deploy freely in the battlefield, removing them gives us a tactical ability.

The first reason why many of us archers might not be shooting back at enemy ranged and horses, is because the enemy inf is closing in our position and we have no support, since the melee single minded entity saw fit to full charge together like the heroes of old, and leave us ranged for pickings.

The second reason is bump shooting. We dont have big weapons to actually keep them at bay, but even switching between bow and side arm is dangerous, because the rider maneuvers the horse away, then back, before you have time to release the arrow. Or he could just shoot you first with his spammy bow that actually works against light armor, that's a problem too. And if we have something to hide behind, then the rider just goes away and waits for a teammate to force us out. And dodging is not really reliable since the weight nerf, no, staying away from a strong horse in general is the rule if you're an unsupported archer.

Another reason is ranged, shooting at an enemy with the ability to change its position rapidly, from long range, is a waste of arrows, and we run out of those. Keep that in mind people and please dont run after the enemy ha if you have ranged support, or ever. Make them come to you and you might have a shot at dehorsing.

As I told you before Kafein, you have to know the class before you comment on it. Keep your opinions to yourself.




Remember that the constant nerfing has its toal, and if some people expect ranged efficiency from their team, then hand holding is more and more a requirement, whether you like it or not.

Even though I hate horse ranged for the reasons stated above, I have to say nerfing would just feed the fire, because people who dont want to teamplay(because it's 'unfun'), never will, and they should learn the consequences instead of successfully inflaming the rest.

Now devs;
Believe it or not, you have in your hands the means to determine what kind of attitude the comunity adheres to. And so far, threads like these have been the result, despite the constant underdogging of non melee classes.



Oh, and  NERF!

^
With this, everything has been said. Even a solution to the problem has been presented, and not for the first time it is. At this point people could simply say "that makes sense, if I dont support my ranged, how are they supposed to shoot down enemy horses ?".

But since we all know that this wont happen, I cant wait to see what kind of escapist bullshit is presented as an excuse for an argument to "prove" you wrong Adamar

[Adamar]

An isolated scoreboard result should give us some tactical insight to the game.

[Fandrall]

Give me an example of a situation where an archer is more than 10 meters away from any class without a ranged weapon and totally suck equally bad as a 2h more than 10 meters away from an archer. Tip : in such a situation the 2h dies within seconds.

Hes out of arrows?

Seriously that is just silly. This is not a game about standing 10 meters away from people. If you want to "theorycraft" atleast make the scenario somewhat applyable on the actual game...

Like its the end of a round. One guy are left on each team. Team 1 has a 2h optimized to deal and receive dmg in melee. IE no shield skill for ranged protection. Team 2 has a HA optimized to kill heavy inf IE high PD, bodkins and heavier horse. Clearly the HA has an advantage as he can decide when and where to engage the 2h. Right now the only thing the 2h can do is either hide and wait for flags or try to outsmart the HA. Lets say he choose to hide and wait for flags. They spawn and he dances over there in a hail of arrows and bumps hoping the HA will slip up or the glitching hitboxes will save him. Not a very good place to be in and would probably end up with 2h dead.

Does that make the HA class unfair?        No
Do the 2h have to respecc archer to coupe with other ranged?        No
Could he have done something not to get into that position in the first place?       Most likely yes... He could have brought equipment just for situations like that, helped his teamates who are better suited to take out HAs survive, tweaked his build to be able to counter more then melee oriented situations to name a few.

Adaptation against ranged is more ranged, but people don't do it because they still prefer having fun over winning.

It can be but it doesnt have too. You counter an enemy by playing your strengths and denying him using his. Thus you need to adapt your playstyle to the situation you are in. If you optimize yourself to a certain task one of your weaknesses will be not being able to adapt very much. That is your own choice/fault not the classes that you cant counter.

Oh and if people dont want to adapt to win because they prefer having fun why do they call for nerfs/removal of other classes? Sounds to me they want both things to the expense of others fun...

[Rumblood]

Adaptation against ranged is more ranged, but people don't do it because they still prefer having fun over winning.

Seriously, what makes everybody arguing in favor of the statu-quo think that somehow, players aren't adapting to the game ?

No it isn't. It is supporting the ranged that are already there.

Because the ones that complain aren't.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Like its the end of a round. One guy are left on each team. Team 1 has a 2h optimized to deal and receive dmg in melee. IE no shield skill for ranged protection. Team 2 has a HA optimized to kill heavy inf IE high PD, bodkins and heavier horse. Clearly the HA has an advantage as he can decide when and where to engage the 2h. Right now the only thing the 2h can do is either hide and wait for flags or try to outsmart the HA. Lets say he choose to hide and wait for flags. They spawn and he dances over there in a hail of arrows and bumps hoping the HA will slip up or the glitching hitboxes will save him. Not a very good place to be in and would probably end up with 2h dead.

Does that make the HA class unfair?        No
Do the 2h have to respecc archer to coupe with other ranged?        No
Could he have done something not to get into that position in the first place?       Most likely yes... He could have brought equipment just for situations like that, helped his teamates who are better suited to take out HAs survive, tweaked his build to be able to counter more then melee oriented situations to name a few.

It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyones time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyones shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.

Does that make the HA class unfair? It sure as fuck does to the shitload of people whose time is being wasted
Would being hybrid throwers have helped the shielders? If the HA stayed out of maximum range (which for a thrower isn't very long) it wouldn't
Is the insane amounts of minutes being wasted because of some shitbird on a horse beyond retarded? Yes

[Rumblood]

It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyones time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyones shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.

Does that make the HA class unfair? It sure as fuck does to the shitload of people whose time is being wasted
Would being hybrid throwers have helped the shielders? If the HA stayed out of maximum range (which for a thrower isn't very long) it wouldn't
Is the insane amounts of minutes being wasted because of some shitbird on a horse beyond retarded? Yes

That's a problem with MOTF.

[owens]

Not the only one who picked up on it

Jenna haze should have the correct avatar

(click to show/hide)

although Tori Black is better

.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Doug Stanhope thinks you should all shut the fuck up.

Get some Hopenomics up ya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=walWYAIfJHI

[Fandrall]

It's the end of a round, one guy is left on one team, ten people are left on the other. Team 1 has a ha, team 2 has ten shielders optimized to counter ranged as good as they can while not becoming ranged, the HA wastes 3-5 minutes of everyone's time running around without managing to get a single kill despite filling everyone's shields with half a dozen arrows. Everyone even have to wait for the MotF to come up instead of the guy just dehorsing and dying, for he doesn't want to hurt his kd.

That guy sounds like a douchebag. However the only thing your example has to do with classes and classbalance is that a horseranged has high survivability and for that reason attracts(?) more trolls/griefers.

Does that make the HA class unfair? It sure as fuck does to the shitload of people whose time is being wasted

No it doesnt it makes that player unfair. If he has no chance of killing them all or win in an other way he should not drag the fight out... To me this is a classic case of delaying.

Would being hybrid throwers have helped the shielders? If the HA stayed out of maximum range (which for a thrower isn't very long) it wouldn't

You have much more experience then me when it comes to throwing so im not gonna argue about throwing effectiveness but a combination of 10 guys with shields some of them with throwing skill seizing the flag would most likely be successful against one HA.

However If flags are 3-5 mins out, there's a 10 vs 1 situation (everyone else died the first two mins?) and the one guy (whatever class) has a very little chance to win the round even if he uses all the time that is left, he should be a nice guy and engage the enemy in close combat.

Is the insane amounts of minutes being wasted because of some shitbird on a horse beyond retarded? Yes

Agreed but that goes for everyone that are being selfish and make everyone else wait when there's no chance of winning not only Horseranged.

[Jarlek]

• No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)
  
  • OK: running away and shooting enemies that are reachable by projectiles
  • NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation when there is nobody to shoot in range or everyone is behind cover.
  • NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation to search for ammo

Just want to point this out (especially bolded part). Last guy is HA/HX? Get in cover and poll him if he doesn't charge. As long as you run around as retards in the open, they are allowed to ride and shoot you.

[CrazyCracka420]

But Jarlek, I'm too retarded to use logic, I just want to w-key at the enemy...so even though they're doing nothing wrong, let's nerf them anyways, because c-rpg.

[NejStark]

"Tactics" and "teamwork".

Is huddling up in a creek somewhere doing nothing for four minutes because there's literary nothing you can do against the bullshit that is horseranged as melee "tactics" to you?

Yes.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

But Jarlek, I'm too retarded to use logic, I just want to w-key at the enemy...so even though they're doing nothing wrong, let's nerf them anyways, because c-rpg.

90% of the server don't know about that rule

[CrazyCracka420]

I didn't either, and those people chasing HA's are still retarded (and I believed that before knowing about the rule).  Sit your happy ass behind a tree and wait for MOTF.

Or you should have done a better job making sure your ground archers weren't getting raped by infantry.

If you choose to be extremely strong versus infantry melee classes, you're leaving yourself very weak to ranged and cavalry classes.  Dems da breaks.  Deal with it (whining on the forums is certainly one way to deal with it, some people choose to take their fate in their own hands however).

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