Gaming Expert Pat Robertson: ‘Murdering Somebody In Cyberspace’ same as murder

[Sir_Hans]

WARNING: WALL OF MOFOKIN TEXT

1. Offended because I didn't capitalize christian.  Let's be honest here, you are offended because my statement that organized religion is fucking stupid. this isn't a grammar contest and I'm not writing a college paper. Maybe you should analyze your own posts for grammar errors before being critical of others.

Religion is not dumb... people are dumb, including those who say something is dumb when they possess no knowledge on the subject matter.

So you went to Christian school for 5 years as a child, and in your opinion it makes you an expert on theological matters as well as gives you authority to call religion dumb… don’t you think you are the one who’s being ignorant here? Reading a Bible without understanding does not reveal you God’s wisdom and no “my friend”, your knowledge of Christianity does not exceed that of average Christian, otherwise you would have to possess a PhD in Theology which I’m willing to bet you don’t have.

2. The 5 years I spent in bible class, youth group, chapel, and church was all about understanding the bible, not just simply reading it. I don't know how you make the assumption that the school and the churches would just read scripture and not discuss, brainstorm, and preach about its true meaning. The statement was made as a rebuttal to your assumption in which I had "no knowledge on the subject matter".

3. I never said this made me an "expert in theology", I said "I would say my knowledge on the subject matter far exceeds that of the average christian.". There is a pretty big difference, unless you assume that the average christian has spent at least 4 years full time studying theology. I consider my education on christianity "above average" simply because I consider the majority of christians, like yourself, ignorant to what your own religion states.

Your knowledge on Hell and Heaven is much distorted. Perhaps you need to discover Eastern Christian doctrine where you find that Hell is not a physical place underneath the Earth where sinners burn in flames for eternity -that is Dante’s phantasmagoria which he created for his delusional novel, and does not represent Biblical Hell in any shape or form. Hell is absence of communion with Heavenly Father in afterlife.

4. I don't need to "discover eastern christian doctrine" or every single version of the christian religion to refute organized religion altogether. Christians of all sects, believe what they choose to and the beliefs vary because the bible contradicts itself on many occasions.

5. Maybe you are reading a completely different bible, but here is hell as described in the version of the bible I was raised with. (Note: I never said people believe hell is a physical place under the earth.)
   Matthew 25:41 (NKJV) "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels ..." I would think this counts as "Biblical Hell" since it's straight out of the bible.

And yes, he (P.Robertson) is stating his opinion, because he simply is not a recognized authority in Christendom since his domain is televangelism in America which of course has nothing to do with Apostolic Church. Although that being said, he makes a good point which is very easy to misinterpret which I assume that you have done.

6. If you think he needs to be a "recognized authority in christendom" to state a belief rather than an opinion, I suggest you look up the definitions of "belief" and "opinion". Just because what he said is disagreeable even from people of the same faith, doesn't mean the statement he is making is an opinion. It most clearly, according to definition, is his belief.

"How about the fact that someone like ad0lf h1tler (lol forums censor the word " h itler") could be accepted into heaven and forgiven of all sins, if he would have accepted jesus into his heart and not killed himself. Meanwhile a peaceful isolated indigenous tribe somewhere in the jungle all burn in hell simply because they didn't realize on their own, without any bible, that Jesus is the son of God and sacrificed himself for our sins?" ~ My words from the 6th paragraph.

6th paragraph once again a distorted view on Traditional Christian doctrine (who taught you this nonsense?).

7. Maybe in your eyes, but what is believed in my neck of the religious fanatical woods is that Jesus died for our sins and that no one, until the moment they die, is truly beyond redemption. That's why you find pastors and many converted former murderer's who now consider themselves christians inside of prisons. Furthermore, they believe that there is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

John 4:16 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It's completely possible you interpret these verses differently, or refute them altogether with what you consider "traditional christian doctrine". One thing is true, saying that someone like h1tler is beyond redemption while he was living qualifies as judging your fellow man, You know what the bible says about that don't you? No one can judge man but God... Forgive your fellow man so that you yourself may be forgiven by God.
 Don't expect the world to interpret the bible according to your set of interpretations of the bible. The bible contradicts itself on many occasions, and therefor the beliefs people hold based on the bible are often contractible.  But you are right about one thing, it is "nonsense".

Please go ahead and tell us what traditional christian doctrine says on the subject matter. Instead of taking pot shots on what I was taught as the christian religion, those who taught me, or my grammar errors, why don't you explain how your beliefs and interpretation of the bible differ with those of the two largest churches in my county and back it up with scripture.  I could go for some laughs.

[Kafein]

Why is this "Traditional Christian" reading of the Bible more valuable than any other ? The Bible is a collection of books written over the years by dozens of people. When someone interprets something written in the Bible in a particular non-literal way, what is the proof that it's what God intented ? How certain are we that the people that wrote it got it right in the first place ?


Now seriously, let's define a "belief system" as a statement which cannot be validated or invalidated through experiment (such as : "there's an undetectable rose unicorn behind the Moon"). In other words, a religion's dogma. If out of the infinitely many possible exclusive (as in, stating that any other religion is false) belief systems that could exist one of them is true, what are the odds it's yours ?

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[Havoco]

More reason that I should RP a holy order knight in every game. PAT ROBERTSON WILLS IT!

[Yaro]

1. God gave us a gift of a free will, if you chose to forsake his love and promise of eternal life it is your soul. I’m not offended because only thing that you are offending is yourself. Capitalization was just an example of you not ever being truly indoctrinated in Christianity and not an attempt to judge your grammar skills.

2. 5 years you spent in a western Christian flavored school as a CHILD does not count as a FORMAL religious education. Discussing the Bible with people who are as clueless as you are is a fruitless endeavor which leads to what you experiencing right now, dejection of all that nonsense that you were taught. You are not going to try and tell me that you discussed the Bible with the elders of Mount Athos, perhaps with the holy fathers of Valaam monastery? How many days have you spent reciting prayers in hopes that God reveals his wisdom to you through his words in the Bible? How many pilgrimages have you gone on in order to achieve a Christian enlightenment? Have you ever read Summa Theologica, Summa contra Gentiles, City of God, Confessions? Have you memorized the Nicene Creed and could you recite it at will? Do you know Greek?  I state it in plain English: You know NOTHING about Christian religion, the Bible or Christian history as it is self evident (from all the nonsense that you have typed so far in vain attempt to excuse your ignorance) to anybody who practices Christianity and celebrates His Life, Death and Resurrection. What do you really know about my religion? All information that you have provided in regards to your knowledge on this subject is that makes me think that apart from Sola Scriptura you haven't really read anything that can be considered a Christian dogma. John Chrysostom, Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas... are those names even familiar to you? If not, you know NOTHING about Christian theology. And this is not an assumption, it is a fact and you have provided plenty of empirical evidence for me to reach this conclusion.

3. The average Christian spends his/her LIFETIME studying, practicing and attempting to emulate Savior's holiness. You consider a Christian someone who would say in sociological study that he is a Christian, however, does stating that you are a Christian makes you a Christian? Only by participating in the life of Christ one can truly call oneself a Christian.
I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me (Galatians 2:20).

  Only thing is that above average is your lack of humility. Perhaps your pseudo-Christian school failed to teach you the most important lesson that every Christian must know. 

4. Bible does not contradict itself, people contradict the Bible. And yes, if you truly want to discover the truth behind Christian beliefs you must go to the source-the original Christian Church, established by our Lord Jesus Christ upon the foundation of the Apostles, Himself being the chief Cornerstone, and enlivened by the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. Orthodox Christianity is not a sect, it is not a denomination, it is pre-denominational, She is alone, is the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church confessed in the Nicene Creed.
Good point to start your journey would be here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php
You may ask any question about Christianity or scripture that bothers you and multitude of people that are far more educated on the subject matter than me will answer you.

5. I read the Bible, and I also study historical context behind each paragraph that I read, as well as attempt to go to the original source either Septuagint or Greek New Testament text. Once again you are demonstrating lack of basic knowledge on the subject. Did they teach you in your school what language the Bible was translated from? Do you know that Englishmen clumped 3 words from the original text into one? First word HADES-means grave(that’s where Jesus went after his crucifixion)it encompasses the whole realm of the dead, it is not a physical place, second word Gahenna-Lake of Fire (Jesus mostly was talking about Gahenna in his ministry, but he never said anything about eternal torments or other nonsense popularized by delusional western novelists of the medieval Europe) that’s what Jesus died for-to save us from this place and preserve our souls, going to Gahenna will mean a DESTRUCTION of your soul. Gahenna shall occur after final judgment, The Divine Scriptures state explicitly that we will be judged by Christ and not by God the Father: For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son (John 5:22).
Finally Tartarus which comes from Hellenic mythology and occurs only in handful occasions in the New Testament. Same thing as Hades essentially, a world of isolation from God.
I dislike how you ripping verses out of context and suiting them to your liking. Do you realize what Matthew 25:41 is referencing to? Judgement! It doesn't happened after death as i already pointed out. You need to read all verses and stop copy/pasting what you don't comprehend.

6. This is why the spirit of collegiality is the Church’s safeguard against heresy, for many bishops have gone astray and taught heresy. Professing ones opinion cloaked in religious sentiment is not the same as professing the article of genuine faith.
By the way here’s the definition of the word belief:
be•lief
  [bih-leef]  Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that theearth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something notimmediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthyof belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith

7. Only way to the Kingdom of Heaven is participation in the Life of The Holy Trinity(it is important to note as we Christians don’t worship Christ(we celebrate his life) but equally worship divine hypostasis: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit)

Unless we willingly partake of Christ’s life, we have no hope of eternal life; for it is only through Him that we are united with God the Father: I am the living Bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this Bread, he shall live forever; and the Bread that I will give is My Flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. . . . Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, ye have no life in you. . . . He that eateth My Flesh, and drinketh My Blood dwelleth in Me and I in him. As the living Father hath sent Me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth Me, even he shall live by Me (John 6:51,53,56-57).

I could go for some laughs.

You are laughing at oneself only.

God Bless.

[Utrakil]

***Reserved for the wall of text***

That sound like you are going for some bigger research.
That is awsome.
I really like to follow an ellaborate discussion about one of humanities big issues.

[Swaggart]

If you think about it, if god played crpg he would've been banned.

Tower of Babel: Destroying team siege tower.

Asking Isaac to kill his son: Encouraging team wounding.

Noah's Arc: Epic griefing making Noah find a male and female of every species.

[Yaro]

Why is this "Traditional Christian" reading of the Bible more valuable than any other ? The Bible is a collection of books written over the years by dozens of people. When someone interprets something written in the Bible in a particular non-literal way, what is the proof that it's what God intented ? How certain are we that the people that wrote it got it right in the first place ?


Now seriously, let's define a "belief system" as a statement which cannot be validated or invalidated through experiment (such as : "there's an undetectable rose unicorn behind the Moon"). In other words, a religion's dogma. If out of the infinitely many possible exclusive (as in, stating that any other religion is false) belief systems that could exist one of them is true, what are the odds it's yours ?

I don’t quite understand what you are referencing to by “Traditional Christian” reading of the Bible? Perhaps you mean interpretation? There is no interpretation of the Bible in Orthodox Christianity as Orthodox Christian is not free to believe whatever he wants to believe or interpret the Holy Scripture in whatever way strikes his fancy. Nor are bishops free to teach whatever they want. All are called to accept and live by the apostolic tradition, which has been handed down uncorrupt from the first century until today. When Christ ascended to heaven, He did not leave behind a system of philosophy or a school. He left His Church, which was a concrete, historical community there in Jerusalem. From Jerusalem, the Christian Gospel spread throughout the known world, and local Churches were created. This principle can be summarized by the following phrase: no unity of life without unity of faith.  Where is the proof? Alas… Ours is a generation which seeks after signs and wonders (cf. Matthew 12:39)…  Many concepts that are included in Christian dogma are impossible for non believer to comprehend or come to terms with. Bible is not a collection of books. Such statement is a gross oversimplification, it is rather a divinely inspired compendium recorded by handful of people, however all of these works are authored by God. We know what was meant in the Bible because of the history and Apostolic succession, the body of knowledge passed down from one Holy Father to the other and unto the flock. When you say that one may interpret the Bible in his own way it is a fallacy because Christianity is not a set of rules that one may follow on one’s own. It is a life which can only be lived in community, in the Church that Christ Himself founded.

To a non believer, it may be hard to accept the fact that some things in life don’t need to be validated in order to be true. Love requires no validation it’s just is, so is faith, as it has no known measure and its essence cannot be captured and studied in a laboratory. religion is a dogma in purest sense of this word-a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.To you possibilities and odds are infinite, to me the possibility is certain and finite first the cessation of physical life and then possibility becomes two fold either isolation from God and eventual destruction of one’s soul or an eternal life in his presence, Christian makes this judgment on the basis of neither abstract theories nor his own limited, individual experience, but upon the corporate experience of the Church. 
The foundation of everything the Church believes and teaches is the fact that God is not some impersonal essence or philosophical principle, but the Father Who exists in an eternal communion of love with His Son and His Spirit and Who speaks to those whom He has created face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend (Exodus 33:11).

[CrazyCracka420]

LOL @ Yaro and organized religion.  You really need a book written 2000 years ago to tell you that stealing and murdering is not moral?  Let's play devil's advocate for a moment here.  Assuming there is a creator, and he made us as smart as he did (and with free will), don't you think he'd be offended that religious types feel that if you don't follow their books written by goat herders, you won't be able to live a moral life?  What a slap in the face to your creator. 

It's obvious that religion exists for many reasons.  One is that people have always been trying to explain the unexplainable, it makes them more comfortable.  Before we understood what lightning and thunder were, people believed it was a God that was punishing them (same with famines and droughts, etc).  Another reason is that it's a great way to control an otherwise unruly population.  Tell people there's a judgment at the end of their lives and they're probably less likely to murder their neighbor in the middle of the forest and take his money or food.  Another reason is simply because people are greedy.  Churches and other organized religious structures were able to make a lot of money by getting tithe's and using clever trickery into fooling people into believing in miracles or other "works of God".  Also let's say there isn't a "God" or creator, it's sad to think that the only reason "Religious" people aren't out there stealing and murdering is because of a reward they are expecting in the after life.  I don't need a reward to do the right thing and not step on other people's toes.

Now for the real fun (since you're probably a mouth breather who can't be arsed to use his brain):

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This pretty much sums up my beliefs:

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I don't expect Yaro to actually look at more than 1 or 2 of the pictures, but he might learn a thing or two if he did.

[Yaro]

CrazyCracka420
You can't offend or make me mad bro, I'll pray for you.

God Bless

[Ninja_Khorin]

Ooh! Can I join?

I tend to define myself as an explicit atheist weak agnostic with a pinch of apatheism.

[CrazyCracka420]

CrazyCracka420
You can't offend or make me mad bro, I'll pray for you.

God Bless

I'm trying to get you to open up your eyes.  If you read through all the pictures and still hold the exact same beliefs as before, then yes, you are an ignorant mouth breather. 

Watch out for the boogey man, he's real.

[Yaro]

CrazyCracka420

Only thing i'm interested in is what is "mouth breather"?

[Malaclypse]

Thread, no, please stop.

[Armpit_Sweat]

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[CrazyCracka420]

CrazyCracka420

Only thing i'm interested in is what is "mouth breather"?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mouth+breather