Knockdown

[Lanic0r]

Donkey crew what does Knockdown depend on to happen?

[H4rdn3ssKill3r]

Chance my friend, and luck!

[Paul]

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)

expression true -> knockdown
expression false -> no knockdown

raw_damage is the potential damage dealt BEFORE the armor calc done. it includes the weapon base damage as well as the numberous modifiers like speed bonus, powerstrike bonus, wpf bonus etc.


example 1:
winged mace (2 weight)
weak attack -> 28 raw_damage

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 2 * 0.33, 2.0) * min((28 - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 0.66, 2.0) * min(4, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < 0.66 * 4 * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < 0,0396)
Knockdown chance just below 4%.


example 2:
great maul (8 weight)
strong attack -> 70 raw_damage

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 8 * 0.33, 2.0) * min((70 - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 2.67, 2.0) * min(25, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < 2.0 * 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < 0.3)
Knockdown chance(kd) is 30%. It is the maximum kd possible chance because weight is capped at 6 and raw_damage at 40 within this calculation.


example 3:
wooden stick (1 weight)
puny peasant attack -> 15 raw_damage

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 1 * 0.33, 2.0) * min((15 - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min( 0.66, 2.0) * min(-5, 10.0) * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < 0.66 * -5 * 0.015)
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < -0.0495
Knockdown chance is 0% because the random left side can't go below 0 and thus the expression is always false.

[Lanic0r]

(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015)

Thx for quick reply
ok i dont know the order of calculations but i try this way:
weight is 3.3 , average damage 30.
(3,3*0,33*(30-20)*0,5)*0,015)=chance to knockdown= 8%
This does mean the chance is: 1 of 12 hits is a knockdown?

Oh i was too slow ;D

[Paul]

The problem with this calculation is that the raw_damage itself alters a lot ingame although it has no necessarily random component itself. So even with using the same weapon one will have different raw_damage values because of speed bonus and the sweetspot calculation. So even our beloved peasant can cause a knockdown with the right speed bonus that boosts his raw_damage past 20.

The main insight is that the armor of the victim does not help against knockdown since it does not effect the raw_damage.

[H4rdn3ssKill3r]

ohh so my luck and chance explaination isn't good enough for you is it?
goddam it!

[Lanic0r]

The problem with this calculation is that the raw_damage itself alters a lot ingame although it has no necessarily random component itself. So even with using the same weapon one will have different raw_damage values because of speed bonus and the sweetspot calculation. So even our beloved peasant can cause a knockdown with the right speed bonus that boosts his raw_damage past 20.

The main insight is that the armor of the victim does not help against knockdown since it does not effect the raw_damage.

so the biggest chance is 2*10*0,015=33%
Thats ok to limit it but i guessed that our wpf doesent affect on the chance and maybe you have known that this reply isnt the end of this thread ;D
I would like to make you implement the wpf as an extra term. for example:
(rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0*WPF*0,0008) * 0.015)
in this case the max chance would be with WPF 164=39,36%
However, to implimantate such term would avoid to make peasent cappable to knockdown anyone as long as he doesent have WPF on Polearm.
I think the ballance would be better this way and it would be more fair to invest in WPF to be UNIQUE.

[Paul]

We can't change anything of knockdown before we get to use WSE. It's hardcoded. Wpf already influences the raw_damage, altho not much.

I got my own ideas for changing knockdown. One part of that is getting rid of the randomness.

[Lanic0r]

We can't change anything of knockdown before we get to use WSE. It's hardcoded. Wpf already influences the raw_damage, altho not much.

I got my own ideas for changing knockdown. One part of that is getting rid of the randomness.

Yipeee thats what i wanted to read=> you got ideas
what is WSE?
And as i understand the knockdown calculation chooses min results only, and that is 10 (the maximum)  However your WPF is;(

[Paul]

Warband Script Enhancer, work in progress by cmp. It will allow us to change stuff that is hardcoded atm.

[Lanic0r]

Warband Script Enhancer, work in progress by cmp. It will allow us to change stuff that is hardcoded atm.

Well thank you very much. I will donate for your work.

HEY MATES vote for Pauls AWESOMENESS because he cares about Polearms (okay sadly 1hs got knockdown too ;( )!

[Spawny]

Well thank you very much. I will donate for your work.

HEY MATES vote for Pauls AWESOMENESS because he cares about Polearms (okay sadly 1hs got knockdown too ;( )!

There are several 2h's with knockdown too.

[MouthnHoof]

I got my own ideas for changing knockdown. One part of that is getting rid of the randomness.

Randomness is good. If it becomes deterministic there will be builds specifically made for KD. This is what happened with crush-through. The fact that you could make a crush-guaranteed setup made it extremely OP. If it was random on the other hand, it would have posed a great risk to the player trying to crush and much of the effect on the defender would be psychological.

[UrLukur]

Armor should affect knockdown. this way people would not build for KD as they are not able to assure the opponent is armored in some way.

[Digglez]

Armor should affect knockdown. this way people would not build for KD as they are not able to assure the opponent is armored in some way.

This would be good, if you also figured in stuff like....the heavier your armor the more slowly you get up.